History of Feminism

yellowcanine

(36,358 posts)

50. "Listening" goes both ways. Does disagreement necessarily mean I did not listen?

Thu Dec 19, 2013, 10:53 AM

Dec 2013

Sometimes disagreement is just disagreement. I said nothing about "being careful" or "tippy toeing" or "keeping sweet." When you put words in my mouth who is it that is "not listening?" The most effective way to get people to listen to you is not to slam them up front with negative assumptions about how they might respond. How about starting a discussion about what would be the most productive ways to actually change society - for example, should we begin a new campaign to push for an Equal Rights Amendment or should we push for equal pay legislation? Or both? I personally think the ERA effort should be revisited because it would have the best chance of attracting grass roots support of young people, men and women alike, who might change the dynamic of what happened the last time around. Put hundreds of thousands of young people in the streets demonstrating for an ERA in 50 states and see what could happen in state legislatures. Ain't nothing "careful" or "sweet" or "tippy toeing" about that.

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If I Admit That 'Hating Men' Is a Thing, Will You Stop Turning It Into a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy? [View all] boston bean Dec 2013 OP

This should be good... chervilant Dec 2013 #1

Welp... you called it... I really didn't think it would get this much attention. Certainly struck boston bean Dec 2013 #51

Men are the worst. another_liberal Dec 2013 #2

That's what you took away from the OP? nt boston bean Dec 2013 #3

I'm just saying . . . another_liberal Dec 2013 #4

and that would be? boston bean Dec 2013 #5

This message was self-deleted by its author another_liberal Dec 2013 #7

"And that would be . . .?" another_liberal Dec 2013 #10

Well, up to this point, I was genuinely curious as to what the purpose of your response was. boston bean Dec 2013 #11

you fail in communication leaving question to what you aer saying. then you throw a rant when what seabeyond Dec 2013 #12

Just as an aside, you should check the group, because the rules for posting differ by group. spooky3 Dec 2013 #14

oh, the "tone" complaint coupled with "possibly sarcastic" broadbrushing- why not go for a trifecta? bettyellen Dec 2013 #131

I remember reading part four somewhere before (maybe here actually). NuclearDem Dec 2013 #6

In the 60s that was one of the BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #46

I get the point Locrian Dec 2013 #8

Part 3 should be required reading gollygee Dec 2013 #9

Agreed NewJeffCT Dec 2013 #16

Any man who whines about misandry is immediately relegated to Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #13

I have a fantastic progressive friend going through a custody dispute right now TekGryphon Dec 2013 #21

Your friend's situation is still NOT misandry. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #24

So any systemic inequalities against women is born of misogyny, while.. TekGryphon Dec 2013 #28

you have a friend, going thru a divorce, and obviously on his side, feeling his pain, with no actual seabeyond Dec 2013 #35

For the last time, there ARE no systemic inequities against men. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #39

"I've got a mother-in-law ... " A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2013 #94

let me tell you about MY MIL. ya. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #95

... redqueen Dec 2013 #99

historically rules of divorce were there to perpetute he system men preferred- dumping the kids on bettyellen Dec 2013 #132

you can go into the mens forum, join a thread about how to cheat a wife out of her share of the $ seabeyond Dec 2013 #31

I understand why you think this is the same, BlueToTheBone Dec 2013 #55

The legal system is still skewed toward women getting custody Warpy Dec 2013 #85

grabbing the popcorn NewJeffCT Dec 2013 #15

why would you do this? it is a serious subject. grabbing your popcorn, waiting for entertainment seabeyond Dec 2013 #17

Sea I don't see anything nefarious with his posting. I think maybe it is being misinterpreted. He boston bean Dec 2013 #18

i asked. i did not accuse. we understand the meaning of grabbing popcorn. seabeyond Dec 2013 #19

maybe you know something I don't know... ok. boston bean Dec 2013 #20

lol. i do not know either. hence, allowing the poster to clarify. that is the right thing to do, seabeyond Dec 2013 #22

I saw it the same way you did, sea. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #25

If you really want a fruitful discussion about feminism I am not sure this is the best way to do it. yellowcanine Dec 2013 #23

So, once again: instead of men actually listening to us, and thinking about what we're saying, Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #26

"Listening" goes both ways. Does disagreement necessarily mean I did not listen? yellowcanine Dec 2013 #50

Who said anything about how you might respond? BainsBane Dec 2013 #157

this post is NOT addressing you. obviously. the problem, is men like you do not live in this world seabeyond Dec 2013 #29

Ok I do not understand this response - I implied that there IS a need for society to take a yellowcanine Dec 2013 #43

"I think most men on THIS site agree with that." 6. at this point, not including you because seabeyond Dec 2013 #45

and one person who did not, how did you respond....? yellowcanine Dec 2013 #52

my tone? was not right? i tried. man i tippy toed, i asked questions, i compliment, i embraced you seabeyond Dec 2013 #53

I understand this piece. I just disagree with it as a tactic. yellowcanine Dec 2013 #58

because. the hate. is growing. leaps. and. bounds. seabeyond Dec 2013 #60

then start your own OP about the ERA BainsBane Dec 2013 #161

What are you not concerned with the negative approach the rest of DU BainsBane Dec 2013 #160

"I am a man" xulamaude Dec 2013 #32

Tell women? I responded to one OP. How is that "telling women."? yellowcanine Dec 2013 #44

you ask. that is good. so i will answer. women consistently, continually hear we would be more seabeyond Dec 2013 #47

Sure, you're allowed to do almost anything you want xulamaude Dec 2013 #48

btw... you will take note how this whole issue is talking about this issue with you, and not seabeyond Dec 2013 #49

with respect, the sad truth is that you are more the exception, not the rule geek tragedy Dec 2013 #54

Then we go back to the basics and change their minds. yellowcanine Dec 2013 #63

well fuck. k. basics. you dismissed everything i said and became accusatory and defensive. a man seabeyond Dec 2013 #66

this is a discussion board, what are they supposed to do then, just STFU? nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #67

Yes, that is exactly what we are suppose to do BainsBane Dec 2013 #180

Do you even fucking hear yourself? redqueen Dec 2013 #173

Don't question his privilege BainsBane Dec 2013 #179

This facile understanding of what feminism is about has been fostered by many well-meaning women. redqueen Dec 2013 #182

I would have no problem with their saying that BainsBane Dec 2013 #183

exactly redq. i say, that is the easy stuff. womens right. feminism is the hard stuff. seabeyond Dec 2013 #184

Yet here you are BainsBane Dec 2013 #178

Did you read the piece at the link? redqueen Dec 2013 #172

Poor poor me. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #27

i hear ya. it is silly and immature for men to immerse themselves in this mentality. seabeyond Dec 2013 #30

a lot if this stuff is just over my head. if i am hated by virtue being born geckosfeet Dec 2013 #33

so... you did walk in merely to disrupt in your cryptic post. bat signal go out? i see RC here seabeyond Dec 2013 #36

I do take it seriously. Equality for women is a serious issue. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #167

No one here hates men BainsBane Dec 2013 #169

Damn BB, you are on FIRE this morning! Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #170

He may have me on ignore from the gun battles BainsBane Dec 2013 #171

Why should they bother to read the article? They know everything already! redqueen Dec 2013 #175

my posts to you = hate? really? calling you out for purposely being disruptive and disrespectful seabeyond Dec 2013 #176

yo, no one is hating you for having a pee pee instead of a hoo hoo. geek tragedy Dec 2013 #71

Hind quarters fully operational and intact. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #83

good way to illustrate why some individuals are dismissed as fools and losers, thank you. bettyellen Dec 2013 #133

good way to show the hate - keep up the good work geckosfeet Dec 2013 #135

that was just a slight bit of pity. don't flatter yourself. bettyellen Dec 2013 #136

Ha. I wouldn't think of it. geckosfeet Dec 2013 #165

Why are you so determined to defend the far right? BainsBane Dec 2013 #166

Thanks to you as well for demonstrating the need for articles such as the OP. redqueen Dec 2013 #174

The gungeon must be slow BainsBane Dec 2013 #158

It's over your head by virtue of not bothering to read the article BainsBane Dec 2013 #168

Poor, poor you. BainsBane Dec 2013 #181

There needs to be a part six RC Dec 2013 #34

as usual i stopped reading with your offensive first sentence. you do not belong in this group. your seabeyond Dec 2013 #37

This OP was on the Home page. RC Dec 2013 #40

i do not care where the Op was. you are adult enough, and capable enough to simply look seabeyond Dec 2013 #42

What will we learn? BainsBane Dec 2013 #145

boston... as a member of this group, and probably the first time ever, i ask you consider banning seabeyond Dec 2013 #38

oy geek tragedy Dec 2013 #56

thank you geek. he is very consistent with these insults to us, while pretending not. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #61

Nice catch! And commentary! xulamaude Dec 2013 #89

There is help out there. chervilant Dec 2013 #65

I did. RC Dec 2013 #68

I didn't mean chervilant Dec 2013 #75

Feminism in general, yes. RC Dec 2013 #84

"In Your Face" type feminist, huh? xulamaude Dec 2013 #86

yes. he defines feminism and the ones that do not follow his definition have emotional damage. seabeyond Dec 2013 #87

Yeah, feminists should be deferential to men. They seem to have not gotten that memo. nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #91

"what some woman's definition of feminism is" BainsBane Dec 2013 #149

"Didn't you read my post?" Squinch Dec 2013 #101

Maybe you should do more than skim my post. RC Dec 2013 #105

yet... you have to continually, always, consistently throw in your jabs toward hof. and why oh why, seabeyond Dec 2013 #106

You want us to stop recommending threads and have others who haven't ever made a single post in here boston bean Dec 2013 #107

No, you take responsibility. RC Dec 2013 #108

Apparently, you don't understand me at all. boston bean Dec 2013 #109

After my first post, where I did not see the HoF, I was defending my position. RC Dec 2013 #112

so, this is how many posts? you are well aware you are in hof, STILL the insults. ya. get over it seabeyond Dec 2013 #113

You are ignoring that you are posting in this group, and insulting the hell out of us. boston bean Dec 2013 #114

Like I said... RC Dec 2013 #115

Like I know, you are always quick to blame but never any self introspection. boston bean Dec 2013 #116

Be sweet, not angry little lady!1! nt xulamaude Dec 2013 #117

scary. reading BB's post above, i just caught a glance and thought rc was telling bb to be ..... seabeyond Dec 2013 #119

It is scary that it's not that much of a stretch to think xulamaude Dec 2013 #120

In his mind, he was a briliant ray of positivity.... does he even read what he wrote?? boston bean Dec 2013 #121

Yeah, see he's not being insulting or negative xulamaude Dec 2013 #123

i am telling ya. i haev had two years experience with this dazzling brilliance. and that is exactly seabeyond Dec 2013 #124

Yeah, but he has an interest in psychology, and has read books. Therefore, he feels he Squinch Dec 2013 #127

He uses way more words though... yup. lol. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #122

or like you said. take responsibility. you insult. dude. that would be negative. all the time, seabeyond Dec 2013 #118

You are more than welcome to defend far right wing men's groups BainsBane Dec 2013 #154

personally attacking a group of people is not "opinion". it is stepping in and personally attacking seabeyond Dec 2013 #110

Yet for some reason you've decided your problems with your ex girlfirends BainsBane Dec 2013 #153

HoF is a group not a forum sheshe2 Dec 2013 #162

Maybe not. Again, based on the first line of your post and a quick skim: Squinch Dec 2013 #125

lol lol.... oh your laugh is infectious. i wonder what that means, lol. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #126

The message is we're not supposed to be "in your face feminists" BainsBane Dec 2013 #152

Don't broadbrush men BainsBane Dec 2013 #156

But he has an interest in psychology, so we all need to listen. Squinch Dec 2013 #164

your one crappy realtionship has nothing to do with the OP. If you actully read it, you would not bettyellen Dec 2013 #134

And the jury results are in... aikoaiko Dec 2013 #137

it only took all day for someone to alert? of course it stays. insulting feminists is the in thing seabeyond Dec 2013 #138

Why did you feel the need to post that jury result. boston bean Dec 2013 #140

I post all the juries I'm in. Transparency is good. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #141

So, you came here to help out? Good to know. nt boston bean Dec 2013 #142

It not about you or the group. its about DU. I post all leave it juries on which I serve. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #143

Here's another thing about DU BainsBane Dec 2013 #147

Are jury results a violation of this group's SOP? aikoaiko Dec 2013 #148

Read them BainsBane Dec 2013 #150

I support the SOP for this group. And I bid you good night. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #155

It stirs up shit BainsBane Dec 2013 #146

You presume incorrectly. aikoaiko Dec 2013 #151

Tell us not to broadbrush BainsBane Dec 2013 #144

A plea to greatest pagers - read the actual article, not just the title. Dash87 Dec 2013 #41

So many women have such good reason to be xulamaude Dec 2013 #57

this is what amazes me. rape, abuse, murder, oppression, submission, subjugated, degraded seabeyond Dec 2013 #62

Part Four left out an important "Men's Rights" issue... chromotone Dec 2013 #59

all with expectation of bringing in income while doing all housework, caring of children, feeding seabeyond Dec 2013 #64

Oy, so you start with a gender stereotype and then blame women for the stereotype being geek tragedy Dec 2013 #69

Jesus wept. for real. tragc. just leave the man alone. and assume ALL responsibilities running seabeyond Dec 2013 #70

apparently lighting the furnace is an example of gender oppression. who knew? geek tragedy Dec 2013 #72

btw... i lit the pilot last saturday in game room so a bunch of teenage boys could stay warm. seabeyond Dec 2013 #73

depends, did you bake cookies for them too? nt geek tragedy Dec 2013 #74

lol... tomorrow or the next day. though i provided snack food. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #80

did you do that on bended knee and a tray of refreshments in your other hand? boston bean Dec 2013 #88

nah. these boys love me. follow me around going on and on and on. they just do not see me seabeyond Dec 2013 #90

Expected of men by whom? MadrasT Dec 2013 #76

Eventually I did it all except maintain a couple of third world cars Warpy Dec 2013 #82

Another of the more unintentionally hilarious posts on this board. Sheldon Cooper Dec 2013 #77

What about households in which no men live? xulamaude Dec 2013 #78

You satirist, you. A-Schwarzenegger Dec 2013 #96

My husband has multiple sclerosis ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #100

Are you 80? Squinch Dec 2013 #102

Well said. redqueen Dec 2013 #103

Maybe he's a time traveller from the 1950's...the handle implies it. nt raccoon Dec 2013 #104

Heh! ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #128

Did you mistake someone in here for your wife? BainsBane Dec 2013 #163

Oh look. MadrasT Dec 2013 #79

lmao. nt seabeyond Dec 2013 #81

Shocked! Shocked I tell you. I think these guys are the flies that you catch Squinch Dec 2013 #130

!!! redqueen Dec 2013 #177

. Squinch Dec 2013 #185

Part Four was outstanding. CrispyQ Dec 2013 #92

du rec Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2013 #93

Holy shit... I thought this was an old OP. This escalated quickly. redqueen Dec 2013 #97

This is such good stuff ismnotwasm Dec 2013 #98

Proud to K&R UtahLib Dec 2013 #111

I used to get annoyed by the phrase "What about the menz?" because it seemed overly nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #139

Oh yeah. Menz doesn't mean men BainsBane Dec 2013 #159

I get that, yeah. nomorenomore08 Dec 2013 #186

"Why People Being Shitty to You Is Not the Same as You Being Systematically Disenfranchised " Yep. bettyellen Dec 2013 #129