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Jim__

(14,513 posts)
28. It's actually a quite interesting article.
Fri Dec 14, 2018, 10:01 AM
Dec 2018

People can disagree with what he's saying. But he is talking about the human condition - how can we reconcile our natural impulses to enjoy life with our knowledge the we, and all of our friends and acquaintances, are going to die. Discussing the issue can help us come to terms with it.

He quotes Bertrand Russell and John Stuart Mill in the article. Both were intelligent, well-respected thinkers, certainly not religious, and both seemed aware of the issue and willing to confront it:

But none of this material progress beckons humans to a way of life beyond mere satisfaction of our wants and needs. And this matters. We are a meaning-seeking species. Gray recounts the experiences of two extraordinarily brilliant nonbelievers, John Stuart Mill and Bertrand Russell, who grappled with this deep problem. Here’s Mill describing the nature of what he called “A Crisis in My Mental History”:

“I had what might truly be called an object in life: to be a reformer of the world. … This did very well for several years, during which the general improvement going on in the world and the idea of myself as engaged with others in struggling to promote it, seemed enough to fill up an interesting and animated existence. But the time came when I awakened from this as from a dream … In this frame of mind it occurred to me to put the question directly to myself: ‘Suppose that all your objects in life were realized; that all the changes in institutions and opinions that you are looking forward to, could be completely effected at this very instant; would this be a great joy and happiness to you?’ And an irrepressible self-consciousness distinctly answered: ‘No!’”


At that point, this architect of our liberal order, this most penetrating of minds, came to the conclusion: “I seemed to have nothing left to live for.” It took a while for him to recover.

Russell, for his part, abandoned Christianity at the age of 18, for the usual modern reasons, but the question of ultimate meaning still nagged at him. One day, while visiting the sick wife of a colleague, he described what happened: “Suddenly the ground seemed to give away beneath me, and I found myself in quite another region. Within five minutes I went through some such reflections as the following: the loneliness of the human soul is unendurable; nothing can penetrate it except the highest intensity of the sort of love that religious teachers have preached; whatever does not spring from this motive is harmful, or at best useless.”


Carl Jung also believed that the human psyche was driven to seek meaning and he wrestled with the role of religion and the implications of its absence from modern life:

It is the role of religious symbols to give a meaning to the life of man. The Pueblo Indians believe that they are the sons of Father Sun, and this belief endows their life with a perspective (and a goal) that goes far beyond their limited existence. It gives them ample space for the unfolding of personality and permits them a full life as complete persons. Their plight is infinitely more satisfactory than that of a man in our own civilization who knows that he is (and will remain) nothing more than an underdog with no inner meaning to his life
- Approaching the Unconscious

Jung sees a danger of the state potentially replacing the role of meaning found in mythology:

The state is merely the modern presence, a shield, a make-belief, a concept. In reality, the ancient war-god holds the sacrificial knife, for it is in war that the sheep are sacrificed ... So instead of human representatives or a personal divine being, we now have the dark gods of the state ... The old gods are coming to life again in a time when they should have been superseded long ago and nobody can see it.
- Nietzsche's Zarathustra

At the very least, the article should provoke thought.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Not all of it is twaddle. He's right about this: The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #1
Well, I changed the title. I replaced "Twaddle" with "Codswallop." MineralMan Dec 2018 #2
I disagree. Trump will be replaced by something or someone else The Velveteen Ocelot Dec 2018 #3
It has always happened. Different crowds, different tyrannical characters. MineralMan Dec 2018 #4
That' what got my attention... 2naSalit Dec 2018 #26
I think he has a point, but there is no word in the English language for it. marylandblue Dec 2018 #5
Relationships with others. MineralMan Dec 2018 #6
Those are personal meanings, and good as far as they go marylandblue Dec 2018 #7
Politics, social organizations, careers. MineralMan Dec 2018 #8
Yes, the list is endless, that's part of the problem marylandblue Dec 2018 #9
Good points. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #10
I think people need a grand narrative, that's really what he is talking about marylandblue Dec 2018 #16
Everyone crafts their own narrative. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #18
Most people buy their narratives off the shelf marylandblue Dec 2018 #24
IF/WHEN The Christ Himself RETURNS in Glory as He supposedly sprinkleeninow Dec 2018 #29
Well, I am an agnostic, so I really don't know. marylandblue Dec 2018 #30
I had awareness of that which you 'hold' or how you identify. sprinkleeninow Dec 2018 #31
I guess I'm not a person... tonedevil Dec 2018 #32
I was clearly talking about people in general, not each and every individual person marylandblue Dec 2018 #33
Er what? Voltaire2 Dec 2018 #34
Didn't make any complaints about atheism just accepted what atheists usually say. marylandblue Dec 2018 #35
Like this: guillaumeb Dec 2018 #11
Yes, I read it. Codswallop. MineralMan Dec 2018 #12
I agree with that part of the article. eom guillaumeb Dec 2018 #13
See. I was right, then. MineralMan Dec 2018 #14
Well, you are free to think so. guillaumeb Dec 2018 #15
Of course I am. MineralMan Dec 2018 #20
This is the weakest part of the article marylandblue Dec 2018 #17
We disagree. eom guillaumeb Dec 2018 #19
No shit. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2018 #27
But wait. Guy agrees with that paragraph. MineralMan Dec 2018 #21
Yes, it's hard for some people to think of life without religion marylandblue Dec 2018 #22
And some can't imagine life with religion. MineralMan Dec 2018 #23
... Major Nikon Dec 2018 #25
It's actually a quite interesting article. Jim__ Dec 2018 #28
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»In the Mood for Some Pseu...»Reply #28