Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,602 posts)
37. "...you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it comprehend..."
Sat Dec 8, 2018, 08:11 AM
Dec 2018

I agree and offer your latest reply as evidence:

JTO: "The individual right was to the people to belong to militia as a duty."
How does a right become a duty? Where is the term "duty" found in the 2A?
FYI: I did my own research; it doesn't and it isn't.

Why did you omit and or overlook Wm Rawle's title...
I didn't overlook it. As far as not reposting it where I quoted what you wrote, I figured you were able reread what you wrote and do your own research.

Rawle felt the particular limitations on congress in the bill of rights helped provide security to individual rights, so, as encyc brittanica and wiki wrote, the bill of rights was: a collection of mutually reinforcing guarantees of individual rights and of limitations on federal and state governments.
Yes, as do I.

Regarding Miller:
Defendants Miller and Layton filed a demurrer challenging the relevant section of the National Firearms Act as an unconstitutional violation of the Second Amendment. District Court Judge Heartsill Ragon accepted the claim and dismissed the indictment, stating, "The court is of the opinion that this section is invalid in that it violates the Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, U.S.C.A., providing, 'A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.'" Judge Ragon provided no further explanation of his reasons.

In reality, Ragon was in favor of the gun control law and ruled the law unconstitutional because he knew that Miller, who was a known bank robber and had just testified against the rest of his gang in court, would have to go into hiding as soon as he was released. He knew that Miller would not pay a lawyer to argue the case at the Supreme Court and would simply disappear. Therefore, the government's appeal to the Supreme Court would be a sure win because Miller and his attorney would not even be present at the argument.

And Judge Ragon was correct:
On March 30, 1939, the Supreme Court heard the case. Attorneys for the United States argued four points:
*-The NFA is intended as a revenue-collecting measure and therefore within the authority of the Department of the Treasury.
*-The defendants transported the shotgun from Oklahoma to Arkansas, and therefore used it in interstate commerce.
*-The Second Amendment protects only the ownership of military-type weapons appropriate for use in an organized militia.
*-The "double barrel 12-gauge Stevens shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches in length, bearing identification number 76230" was never used in any militia organization.

Neither the defendants nor their legal counsel appeared at the Supreme Court. A lack of financial support and procedural irregularities prevented counsel from traveling. Miller was found shot to death in April, before the decision was rendered.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2018 #1
That's an odd question. My take is that gun nuts interpret the meaning of the amendment differently Nitram Nov 2018 #2
The "implications" of the well regulated militia clause needledriver Nov 2018 #3
That's your idiosyncratic interpretation. There are two interpretations that are widely accepted Nitram Nov 2018 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author gejohnston Nov 2018 #5
A simple challenge for you hack89 Nov 2018 #6
I make a distinction between owning and practicing the safe use of a firearm, Nitram Nov 2018 #7
We are talking about guns and the militia. hack89 Nov 2018 #8
The history around the Bill of Rights supports my claim. During debates on what rights should be Nitram Nov 2018 #10
Ok. Now show me the case law that says all of that. hack89 Nov 2018 #11
You can start here. Enjoy! Nitram Nov 2018 #15
No. hack89 Nov 2018 #18
"But with the right of gun ownership enshrined in the U.S. Constitution" hack89 Nov 2018 #19
anywhere outside of the South before the mid 1920s gejohnston Nov 2018 #9
Per your request, yagotme Nov 2018 #12
In south central Kansas, some 55 years ago. oneshooter Nov 2018 #13
You've just proved my point. You were not allowed to "bear arms" in school. Nitram Nov 2018 #16
Ok, so you agree that a 10yr old should be allowed to carry a rifle oneshooter Nov 2018 #22
I was given my first rifle at age 10. I would never have been allowed to carry it loaded, not to Nitram Nov 2018 #23
And how long ago was this? oneshooter Nov 2018 #24
1962 Nitram Nov 2018 #25
Were you living in a city/town? oneshooter Nov 2018 #26
Rural Virginia. Nitram Nov 2018 #27
I took my first "big game" with my Grandfathers M92 in 38WCF, no scope. I was 10 years old. oneshooter Nov 2018 #28
Umm, your original question was to "Carry" "into school". yagotme Dec 2018 #30
You do realize that schools used to have gun clubs, don't you? Revanchist Nov 2018 #14
Looks pretty well-regulated to me. Nitram Nov 2018 #17
Poor trigger discipline in some of those pics. yagotme Dec 2018 #31
But nothing to do with the militia, right? Nt hack89 Nov 2018 #29
My daughter's university in Minnasota has secure gun lockers for students hack89 Nov 2018 #21
Yes, there are two interpretations discntnt_irny_srcsm Nov 2018 #20
boring bor jimmy the one Dec 2018 #33
Apologies for the quote. It should heave been, "Jimmy, we have to cook." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #34
both limitation and protection in bor jimmy the one Dec 2018 #36
"...you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it comprehend..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #37
I'm so excited, I just can't hide it jimmy the one Dec 2018 #38
re: "Thanks for making my point." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #39
miller said no individual rkba jimmy the one Dec 2018 #40
re: "miller said no individual rkba" discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #41
read and understand 1939 miller decision jimmy the one Dec 2018 #42
re: "Abandonment by defense counsel occurs & occurred... You make little sense." discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #43
1939 Miller decision in supreme court jimmy the one Dec 2018 #32
In discussing miller provide for us in detail... discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2018 #35
Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Gun Control & RKBA»Which Americans support t...»Reply #37