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Gun Control & RKBA

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friendly_iconoclast

(15,333 posts)
Wed May 18, 2016, 05:03 PM May 2016

Once again, the VPC hopes you are both easily frightened and poor at math [View all]

The Violence Policy Center has cranked up its evergreen moral panic
"Concealed Carry Killers"- and the gullible and doctrinaire fall for it:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22concealed+carry+killers%22&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

http://www.democraticunderground.com/126210658

Concealed Carry Tragedies Include Workplace Shooting, Six-Year-Old Unintentionally Killing Father.

Washington, DC — Concealed handgun permit holders are responsible for at least 873 deaths not involving self defense since 2007, including 29 mass shootings that killed 139 people, ongoing VPC research shows. Since there is no comprehensive record keeping of fatal incidents involving concealed carry permit holders, this tally most likely represents a small fraction of the actual total.


I couldn't be arsed to look for any 2014 or 2015 screeds from them, so let's
look at one from 2013:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023118413

Research Details Hundreds of Examples of Innocent Lives Lost to “Concealed Carry Killers"


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
June 27, 2013
3:18 PM
CONTACT: Violence Policy Center
Avery Palmer, 202-822-8200 x104, apalmer@vpc.org

As Zimmerman Case Begins, VPC Research Details Hundreds of Examples of Innocent Lives Lost to “Concealed Carry Killers

WASHINGTON - June 27 - Washington, DC— As the trial opens this week over the deadly shooting of Trayvon Martin, research shows that similar fatal incidents are shockingly common. The Violence Policy Center has uncovered hundreds of examples of non-self defense incidents involving private citizens legally allowed to carry concealed handguns. These incidents resulted in 516 deaths — including 24 mass shootings and the killing of 14 law enforcement officers.


Doing the math, and according to the VPC, concealed carriers are responsible for 357
deaths over the last three years, or 119 a year.
Lets stipulate, for the sake of this argument, that all of those deaths were murders
even if they were not.

Now comes the part where the wheels fall off the panic mongering.

The lowest estimate I can find for the number of concealed handgun permit holders
in the US is 11.1 million- other figures cited were a high of 12.8 million but
I'll stick with the low one. Taking that number, and using the numbers given by the
VPC, we see that 119/11100000 = a murder rate of 0.93 per 100,000 permit
holders, a rate about one-fifth of the US population as a whole

Source for US murder rate:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-1

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2015/preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-januaryjune-2015/tables/table-3

Worse for the controllers, these numbers mean that those 'concealed carry killers'
kill at a lower rate than does the populations of the UK, France,
Australia (where have I heard that name recenly?), Ireland, Canada...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

http://rboatright.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html


and at par with Norway and Sweden




31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Your average concealed and/or open carry person Gman May 2016 #1
Do you have something non-tangental to say about the OP? friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #2
The OP attempts to debunk VPC's numbers and argument Gman May 2016 #5
The VPC's 'argument' is mere fear-mongering not supported by fact friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #7
Read it again ... slooowly. No debunking is involved DonP May 2016 #8
No but you'd be surprised Gman May 2016 #9
You don't know me. CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #11
That's a good thing then Gman May 2016 #15
Why? CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #16
Well, my statement was Gman May 2016 #17
Thank you. CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #18
Then there are all those "Mayors Against Illegal Guns" pedophiles too. DonP May 2016 #14
What makes them dumbasses? ileus May 2016 #22
They don't do what I do. CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #24
I do all of the above except the Gman May 2016 #25
Anecdotal Press Virginia May 2016 #26
So you take the few "dumbasses" you know TeddyR May 2016 #30
This is of course, your opinion... beevul May 2016 #3
Opinion which didn't actually address anything in the OP friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #4
Can you define average? JonathanRackham May 2016 #10
Evidently he hangs out with a bunch of dumbasses who have guns but Press Virginia May 2016 #27
"When the NRA figures out how to keep guns out of those hands" CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #13
Yeah, that stuck out for me as well... Eleanors38 May 2016 #23
"examples of non-self defense incidents involving private citizens" CompanyFirstSergeant May 2016 #12
9 years of data...less then 100 deaths a year, including suicides... jmg257 May 2016 #19
Even using VPC's cooked numbers, their header doesn't match reality friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #20
They know their audience well. ileus May 2016 #21
robbing peter to pay paul, ccw wise jimmy the one May 2016 #28
Did you have something germane you wanted to add? I'm sure we'd all love to see it. friendly_iconoclast May 2016 #29
Your post TeddyR May 2016 #31
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