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beevul

(12,194 posts)
29. Bull.
Fri May 6, 2016, 02:18 PM
May 2016
The clear language of the Second Amendment links a well regulated militia to the right of "the people" to bear arms. Quite clear and basic, or it was until Scalia decided that the first clause was merely prefatory. A feat of logical incoherence that the NRA ignores because it supports their goal of increasing revenue for the weapons industry.


Bull. If you understand constitutional theory, and understand how a negative charter of rights works, and you read this:

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

http://billofrights.org/


It becomes crystal clear, that what the significance you place on the first clause is deliberately misplaced with an end in mind.

You know it, and we know it.

Your arguments and the intent behind them are transparent.


The NRA, and some NRA supporters, generally ignore the reference to a well regulated militia, and the necessity of a militia for the common defense, because to admit and follow the clear language undercuts the NRA's, and your, argument.


You want others to admit to your nonsensical collective rights theory, when it doesn't mesh with reality or history?

Why am I not surprised.

We're supposed to believe, that after a war of revolution against the british sparked by *gasp* gun issues, that in spite of the fact that 40+ states wrote individual RKBA into their state constitutions, that the framers didn't intend for individuals to have the right to keep and bear arms, when they wrote "the people" in amendment 2.

Gee, I'll buy that for a dollar.

Plus, when talking about "the people", are you referring to the original intent of that phrase, which refers to white males of property?


Are you?


For the NRA, linguistic analysis is something that is avoided, and rightfully so, because the clear language, and SCOTUS precedent prior to Heller, is not favorable to the idea of an individual right.


And for anti-gunners, the preamble to the bill of rights and the concept of a negative charter of rights go right out the window and rightfully so, because both of those things destroy the credibility and hence the validity of the collective rights theory, and...well...anti-gunners...the really die hard ones...they just can't have that. Even republican former brady president paul helmke recognizes that the collective rights argument is dead. Whats your excuse?

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

What was "carefully considered" by the politicians passing the bill guillaumeb May 2016 #1
That was a major victory sarisataka May 2016 #2
A major victory for fear and for the money purchasing SCOTUS Judges. guillaumeb May 2016 #3
. sarisataka May 2016 #4
..."for the money purchasing SCOTUS judges" Kang Colby May 2016 #5
You do realize TeddyR May 2016 #6
A carefull re-reading of my post will show that I was referring to SCOTUS guillaumeb May 2016 #8
Apologies for misreading your post TeddyR May 2016 #9
Again, after accepting your kind apology, the SCOTUS is the final arbiter of law. guillaumeb May 2016 #11
Ok TeddyR May 2016 #13
what centuries of SCOTUS precedent? gejohnston May 2016 #7
First, prior to DC v Heller, the established and accepted view was that the Second guillaumeb May 2016 #10
There's lots of scholarly articles TeddyR May 2016 #12
Please read my reply #10. It says it better than I can. eom guillaumeb May 2016 #14
Ok TeddyR May 2016 #15
your source lied by omission, gejohnston May 2016 #16
While that view had some degree of legal standing... Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #17
To characterize a unanimous SCOTUS decision as guillaumeb May 2016 #18
Ah, so they never bothered to rule on it because, well "everybody knows" DonP May 2016 #19
Research SCOTUS decisions prior to Heller and your claim of guillaumeb May 2016 #20
Yeah, that's too bad, like it or not you're still stuck with Heller and McDonald as the law DonP May 2016 #25
You couldn't be more wrong about the linguistic analysis. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #21
The clear language of the Second Amendment links a well regulated militia guillaumeb May 2016 #22
See above. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #23
The NRA would be quite proud. guillaumeb May 2016 #24
Ah, resorting to insult? Bye, Felicia. Lizzie Poppet May 2016 #26
Bull. beevul May 2016 #29
Where does the Second Amendment TeddyR May 2016 #30
unanimous only because gejohnston May 2016 #28
Not familiar sarisataka May 2016 #27
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