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aranthus

(3,386 posts)
1. Some of this I agree with
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:49 AM
May 2016

Criticizing Netanyahu is in no way anti-Zionist, let alone antisemitic. And if the author accurately quotes a writer in the Jerusalem Post (he doesn't give a citation), then that writer is ludicrous.

Here is where he steps wrong. He claims that all anti-Zionism is a political position, and that simply isn't true. Political and Religious anti-Zionists believe very different things for very different reasons.

First, the belief of Religious anti-Zionists can be summarized as, "The Jews are not entitled to a state in Israel, yet. Sometime in the future for sure, but not right now." The belief of political anti-Zionists is, "The Jews are not entitled to a state in Israel at all. Not now, not ever, never." Religious anti-Zionists accept that Jews are a people who have a legitimate claim to the land. Political anti-Zionists don't.

Second, the belief of Religious ant-Zionists is not political. It is obviously religious. They believe that for Jews to create a state of Israel is a usurpation of God's authority. Political anti-Zionism is premised on the denial of Jewish national rights. That's why all political anti-Zionism is per se antisemitic; it's hostile to Jews at its core. It's also why the existence of religious anti-Zionism does not legitimize political anti-Zionism. They are two very different sets of ideas.

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Some of this I agree with aranthus May 2016 #1
For the record aranthus May 2016 #2
I believe that Israel doesn't have the right to exist as a Jewish state, Little Tich May 2016 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars May 2016 #8
I believe that no ethnic group should be allowed to create a state and discriminate against other Little Tich May 2016 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars May 2016 #11
Frankly, I think that liberal democracy is the only viable form of government. Little Tich May 2016 #12
Really? So what is your side doing to promote Palestinian liberal democratic values? shira May 2016 #14
You're really barking up the wrong tree. n/t Little Tich May 2016 #25
Not at all. If you truly want a liberal democratic 1-state solution, prove it... shira May 2016 #33
Wrong tree. Little Tich May 2016 #41
Without a state and strong Jewish army King_David May 2016 #20
It's this indifference to the safety of Jews worldwide that's telling... shira May 2016 #34
Israel already guarantees equal rights for all its citizens despite the fiction you're selling. n/t shira May 2016 #15
Read this OP and comment on it please... shira May 2016 #13
Of course it isn't FBaggins May 2016 #3
Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is pure antisemitism. shira May 2016 #5
The quote that really gets me: FBaggins May 2016 #6
It's an irrational hatred so the lie that he's never once heard anyone say anything antisemitic.... shira May 2016 #52
Typical anti-Zionist trash. The OP writer is part of the problem... shira May 2016 #4
I put up the OP because it reflects my own beliefs on anti-Semitism to a great degree. Little Tich May 2016 #10
Yes, you believe you know better what antisemitism & zionism is than Jews. shira May 2016 #16
Ah, so Alan Johnson was just another pro-Israel shill after all... Little Tich May 2016 #19
See, it's hard to argue Alan Johnson is wrong when he distinguishes.... shira May 2016 #22
I've realized that Alan Johnson never mentions what he believes constitutes legitimate criticism of Little Tich May 2016 #27
In post #4, I wrote before the video that at 1:08 into it Johnson distinguishes... shira May 2016 #32
Did you watch the video? Still don't know the difference b/w legit criticism & demonisation? n/t shira May 2016 #43
I seem to struggle with that particular clip, but why don't you enlighten me? Little Tich May 2016 #44
I thought you saw it. Here's another link... shira May 2016 #45
So there's no illegitimate criticism of Israel whatsoever on DU then? Little Tich May 2016 #46
Calling Israel a Nazi, Apartheid state or calling for the forced transfer of Israel's Jews... shira May 2016 #47
I think that there is a difference in how we define the motivations for the examples you mentioned. Little Tich May 2016 #48
The worst critics of Israel spew out most or all of those examples constantly.... shira May 2016 #50
I'm going to jump this thread. Little Tich May 2016 #53
Wait - you didn't answer my last question. Let's see if what you're saying is legitimate.... shira May 2016 #54
I thought this thread was exhausted, but your question deserves an answer. Little Tich May 2016 #56
Where have you ever seen Israel's record on gay rights used to deflect criticism? shira May 2016 #57
You're exhausted because u don't want to distinguish b/w legit criticism & Jew hate? shira May 2016 #58
As to the Nazi comparison, that's Holocaust Inversion....a form of Holocaust Denial shira May 2016 #17
"Holocaust Inversion" - that's a real fancy name for a limited instance of a very common mistake in Little Tich May 2016 #21
You're giving Holocaust minimizers (deniers) a free pass to bash Jews. shira May 2016 #23
I'm not giving Livingstone a free pass - it's just that I can't go from his statement being possibly Little Tich May 2016 #24
Then perhaps you're more alike then you realize FBaggins May 2016 #26
It would of course clinch it if Livingstone would make comments that revealed that he really doesn't Little Tich May 2016 #28
You must no have read the entire interview FBaggins May 2016 #29
Source, please. n/t Little Tich May 2016 #30
“A real antisemite doesn’t just hate the Jews in Israel”: Ken Livingstone’s extraordinary definition FBaggins May 2016 #31
I'm not sure our friend agrees with what classical antisemitism.... shira May 2016 #35
Crickets. They won't admit there's a problem, ever. n/t shira May 2016 #38
Yet another bizarre statement made by a former Mayor of London. Little Tich May 2016 #40
It's all his bizarre statements & lies that prove w/o question he's a Jew hater. n/t shira May 2016 #51
You didn't answer what proof of being an antisemite would look like. shira May 2016 #36
It's actually simple - the proof must prove that a person is an anti-Semite. Little Tich May 2016 #39
How about lies that incite hatred & violence? Is that proof? n/t shira May 2016 #42
Sigh FBaggins May 2016 #18
Legitimate criticism of the PLO & Hamas is considered racist by Israel haters.... shira May 2016 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author 6chars May 2016 #49
Chilling but typical silence from the Israel hating Left. No time for reflection.... shira May 2016 #55
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