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cadoman

(1,617 posts)
37. agree, and the plaintiffs will have to prove that TdA is an independent org from Venezuela
Mon Mar 17, 2025, 08:29 AM
Mar 2025

The executive did make the judgement that it was (a hybrid criminal state) and activated the AEA. Congress has not weighed in on the measure (and based on the muted response so far it seems elected Democrats are rightfully holding their tongues).

The more I read the more clear it is to me that the executive doesn't need an act of war to invoke the act. Look at the plaintiff filing here, where they clearly are aware that while AEA has historically been invoked during war, it clearly has clauses to be invoked w/out a war declaration:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436.1.0_2.pdf

"But the AEA has only ever been a power invoked in time of war, and plainly only
applies to warlike actions: it cannot be used here against nationals of a country—Venezuela—
with whom the United States is not at war, which is not invading the United States, and which
has not launched a predatory incursion into the United States. "

As to your second point (that TdA is not a hybrid criminal state), that is the linchpin of the case for these plaintiffs, for whom many are unaware the burden of proof has flipped (note indeed that they are plaintiffs in this case and not defendants).

And this is where I'm gonna make an argument many in this forum are not gonna like but that they need to hear:

Democrats should graciously support and applaud this action.

I'm making that argument from both a political and moral perspective. Otherwise we are going to be ideologically aligned with the idea that TdA is _definitively not associated with the Venezuelan government_ and I'm sorry if you genuinely believe that is the case you are in for a rough few months coming up. I give TFG enough credit that he would not pull this over-the-top maneuver if he didn't have the cards, and there is likely to be a slow drip of Maduro/TdA associations leaking out and being discussed in the coming weeks.

This is just basic public info. Whatever the US military has is gonna be 100x more extensive than this. The plaintiffs won't stand a chance unless the entire narrative about TdA is completely fraudulent (in which case our press will have some serious explaining to do).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel_of_the_Suns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diosdado_Cabello

Here is what is gonna go down. Most of the TdA members have already been deported and were over international waters when Boasberg literally phoned the DoJ to try to turn them around. It turns out though that the five plaintiffs that were in the filing were all held back, see courtlistener here:

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436/gov.uscourts.dcd.278436.19.0_1.pdf

"The five individual Plaintiffs that were the subject of the first TRO have not been removed"

That means this thing is still going to be litigated--in a Federal court--with evidence and discovery and all that shit. You can also bet that it's no coincidence these five men were kept back. They were likely baited into making their filings and the DoJ likely knows their cases are crap and is eager to see them in court.

Please be wary of outlets attempting to emotively equate this with the Japanese internment. I am sure they are wrong at best, and a trap at worst.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

This. Is. Bad. tonkatoy8888 Mar 2025 #1
THIS is a Constitutional crisis, right the f*ck now. NotHardly Mar 2025 #4
No. It's. Not. -- executive is not obligated to follow an unconstitutional judicial order cadoman Mar 2025 #5
Who says it's and 'unconstitutional judicial order'? SnoopDog Mar 2025 #9
Honest question: What was illegal about the deportation of the "Venezuelan gang members?" Polybius Mar 2025 #14
Why don't you look it up yourself? SnoopDog Mar 2025 #18
Because it was easier to ask you Polybius Mar 2025 #19
What was "illegal" was the use of the "Alien Enemies Act of 1798" to do it BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #20
Thank you for answering me BumRush! Polybius Mar 2025 #21
When I saw saw your reply, I was literally listening to a local news radio report on this very subject BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #23
The Judicial Branch Decides What Is Constitutional MayReasonRule Mar 2025 #13
While your intent may be laudable your understanding of the legal case at hand and moniss Mar 2025 #16
an act of war isn't necessary to invoke the act, see below cadoman Mar 2025 #25
Let's cut the crap of accepting that just because they moniss Mar 2025 #26
What foreign nation or government would that be, exactly? NickB79 Mar 2025 #29
that is essentially what the EO asserts, it uses the term "hybrid criminal state" (nt) cadoman Mar 2025 #31
I don't believe they are all gang members any more than I believe "their eating the cats and dogs". Cobalt Violet Mar 2025 #24
what gives him the power to unilaterally deport undocumented migrants? cadoman Mar 2025 #2
"It would be a mistake to use our political capital protecting TdA terrorists" BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #3
you do know that the ACLU battled a far more extreme use of this power and lost, right? cadoman Mar 2025 #7
Again BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #15
I was referencing sentiment from forum threads, bsky, etc. cadoman Mar 2025 #27
DU is just a "discussion board" BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #28
appreciate that cadoman Mar 2025 #32
But you cannot ignore what was in your highlighted section BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #35
agree, and the plaintiffs will have to prove that TdA is an independent org from Venezuela cadoman Mar 2025 #37
If my memory is correct tonkatoy8888 Mar 2025 #8
we have a shit-ton of overcrowded and poorly-funded facilities that desperately need to be improved cadoman Mar 2025 #10
How to convince low information voters Dumpy Mar 2025 #6
Laken Riley agrees! Sea Turtle Mar 2025 #33
Remember all the Do-gooders and garland apologists here? 3825-87867 Mar 2025 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author ancianita Mar 2025 #12
Jail time for whom judge ? republianmushroom Mar 2025 #17
Is there any real proof these are gang members? Cobalt Violet Mar 2025 #22
Doesn't matter how anyone "feels" about it stoned Mar 2025 #30
The problem -AGAIN- is the use of the authority from the "Alien Enemies Act of 1798" BumRushDaShow Mar 2025 #34
Post removed Post removed Mar 2025 #36
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