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malthaussen

(17,839 posts)

76. Counter-factual.

Sat Jan 11, 2025, 03:12 PM

Jan 11

I think that the Democratic Party acted shamefully in disregarding the expressed will of their voters in the primaries and badgering and bullying Mr Biden until he "voluntarily" withdrew his name from consideration. I'm amazed that nobody even seemed to notice or care that the Party was doing the exact thing they accused their opponents of planning to do.

But Joe bowed out, and everybody decided to put lipstick on the pig and pretend it was the best for everyone. The event turned out not to meet those pretenses, but that doesn't prove they were wrong, just as a victory would not have proven they were right.

Mr Biden ought to be clear out of fucks to give at this point, so if he wants to get a little salty with the Party that treated him so unfairly, I can fully understand it. The irony is that Joe was a pretty good President, all things considered, but there was no way the media, the voters, or the Parties were going to let that make a scintilla of difference.

-- Mal

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Highlight:

Biden says he 'would have beaten Trump' but withdrew to unify Democrats [View all] Polybius Jan 11 OP

So qazplm135 Jan 11 #1

Party pushed him out because they panicked over one bad debate. Obama had one bad debate too, and party wanted to push emulatorloo Jan 11 #49

I saw that debate. Trump wouldn't STFU and nobody stopped him. Initech Jan 11 #52

At the time focus groups thought Biden did better than Trump. Trump's nonsense reminded them of how crazy Trump is. emulatorloo Jan 11 #59

People don't want to be "governed". They think that is automatic and will never change. hadEnuf Jan 11 #72

I have been saying for years, OrwellwasRight Jan 12 #103

His problems started way before that debate AkFemDem Jan 11 #54

Made up problems by selective editing on Fox News and ridiculous BS pedaled by the likes of dishonest "influencers" like emulatorloo Jan 11 #57

No one paid attention to her qazplm135 Jan 11 #90

No comparison. Obama had a lackluster debate (at least by Obama standards) LeftInTX Jan 11 #63

Revisionist history. Romney won that debate, Obama lost it badly. And there were plenty of calls for Obama to drop out emulatorloo Jan 11 #64

They weren't serious calls. LeftInTX Jan 11 #65

There were multiple serious editorials in the press. You don't get to claim those calls for Obama to drop out were emulatorloo Jan 11 #67

Was Democratic leadership telling him to drop out? Did major donors stop donating? Did Pelosi ask him to quit? LeftInTX Jan 11 #69

Apples and Oranges. Pelosi lost her mind. Sorry, we're not going "post-truth" on DU like Facebook etc. emulatorloo Jan 11 #70

They were bashing him in 2010. They told him to get out before the debate LeftInTX Jan 11 #71

Democrats were pushing him to drop out hadEnuf Jan 11 #73

Which ones? It turns out those two were actually Republican turncoats who were Romney supporters. LeftInTX Jan 11 #75

Go ahead and link them qazplm135 Jan 11 #87

We kind of figured he felt he could win Frasier Balzov Jan 11 #2

What we didn't know is that he still believes that. Bluetus Jan 11 #20

He would have been annihilated BeyondGeography Jan 11 #3

He's playing Trump stollen Jan 11 #4

Agree that it bothers Trump BeyondGeography Jan 11 #5

There's delusion going on but it's not President Biden. William769 Jan 11 #7

Post removed Post removed Jan 11 #29

Exactly. It's an untestable hypothesis. Chump usually LOVES those, Captain Zero Jan 11 #18

+++++ 1,000's of rec h2ebits Jan 11 #51

Which gaffe was that? Polybius Jan 11 #6

How soon we forget BeyondGeography Jan 11 #9

Maybe. But Who knows quakerboy Jan 11 #10

Fair point. AkFemDem Jan 11 #55

And at this stage of his decline, the "gotcha" press Bluetus Jan 11 #21

You completely underestimate the misogynistic nature of "Mericans. Ferrets are Cool Jan 11 #31

Biden deserved better than he received. shotten99 Jan 11 #8

This. He's the first president whose positive impact on my life I have unequivocally felt... Alice B. Jan 11 #22

I'm going to.be pissed off over that until the day I die. BigmanPigman Jan 11 #40

I do think there are people that didn't vote for Harris becsuse she is a woman JI7 Jan 11 #11

In addition to the people above, I believe the Gaza War subtracted slivers of 3 kinds of voters Tetrachloride Jan 11 #19

My sense is that a lot of conservatives want out of all foreign conflicts. yardwork Jan 11 #36

yes, a large faction is what I gather. But they might be bandwagon group. Tetrachloride Jan 11 #37

I want out of all foreign conflicts too LearnedHand Jan 11 #61

I'm not sure what you would suggest Ukraine do. yardwork Jan 11 #82

Yeah I wouldn't want to abandon Ukraine LearnedHand Jan 11 #88

I think we may have misunderstood one another. yardwork Jan 14 #108

From what I heard on the news, apparently too many voters didn't know who she was! Rhiannon12866 Jan 11 #23

I love Joe, but he should not have run for a 2nd term. Martin Eden Jan 11 #12

No, she was handicapped because she is female. Americans suck...at least 50% of them. Ferrets are Cool Jan 11 #32

None of us can prove anything, but IMHO, I don't think the "anointment" made much, if any, difference. spooky3 Jan 11 #42

Don't underestimate the power of the primary Martin Eden Jan 11 #44

I haven't seen any evidence that it influenced voters. Those who spooky3 Jan 11 #46

Negative impact in the context of what happened is one thing Martin Eden Jan 11 #48

Don't underestimate the incumbency advantage. Also don't overestimate "battle tested" in an open primary. emulatorloo Jan 11 #56

Hillary Clinton was widely disliked long before the primary, mostly due to decades of rightwing smears Martin Eden Jan 11 #78

I'm certain that Biden would have won in 2016. yardwork Jan 11 #83

History would say otherwise MichMan Jan 11 #95

Biden has never lost a general election though. That's history too. emulatorloo Jan 11 #97

In addition, only one sitting VP has won election since 1836, and that was also in 1988. MichMan Jan 11 #98

2016 was an incredibly close election, just as 2024 was. yardwork Jan 12 #105

and maybe the orange anus would have beaten him in 2020 even with a pandemic pstokely Jan 12 #102

Clinton had high favorability numbers during and after her tenure as Secretary of State. emulatorloo Jan 11 #96

I thought Biden was a good president, but that kind gives credit to the dementia thing. doc03 Jan 11 #13

Did the lack of a red wave in 2022 change his plans? pstokely Jan 11 #14

Good question. nt spooky3 Jan 11 #43

I've always thought that that was exactly it Polybius Jan 11 #53

There's nothing wrong w Biden's cognitive function and you know it. Unrec for buying into talking points from MAGA emulatorloo Jan 11 #60

It was obvious for a long time physically but doc03 Jan 11 #68

He will always be 1 - 0 against TSF. Rhiagel Jan 11 #15

He wouldn't have beat him, but I've been watching the felon for 40 years. Scrivener7 Jan 11 #16

He's delusional. speak easy Jan 11 #17

Implying there's a tradeoff between victory and unity FBaggins Jan 11 #24

I just don't see it. I think Biden would have lost too. To much Musk. BradBo Jan 11 #25

"I could have beaten Trump" was the only answer Joe could give. sop Jan 11 #26

President Biden was an awesome President PennRalphie Jan 11 #27

The truth is we don't really know the answer dlk Jan 11 #28

I agree with Joe. hamsterjill Jan 11 #30

Possible due to baked in white + man vote kerouac2 Jan 11 #33

Yes. Continuous campaign. Going forward. No reason to go silent now. Keep up the pressure bucolic_frolic Jan 11 #35

I don't want us piled with regrets, but don't dismiss Biden's claim outright bucolic_frolic Jan 11 #34

Let's not forget Gymbo Jan 11 #38

Gosh...At the end of 2024, this should have been the story of the year. Not just Clooney, but the whole dogpile LeftInTX Jan 11 #39

Will this become a precedent moving forward ? MichMan Jan 11 #41

I love Biden, but let's not have short memories about this. Music Man Jan 11 #45

Let's not forget that Biden was counted out in 2020 nuxvomica Jan 11 #47

+ 1000 emulatorloo Jan 11 #62

No one was questioning his competency qazplm135 Jan 11 #89

In 2020 some DU'ers where claiming Biden was a senile racist rapist. emulatorloo Jan 11 #99

So this is more about qazplm135 Jan 11 #100

IMO, a lot of the pure enthusiasm for Harris was precisely because she wasn't Biden. MichMan Jan 11 #74

I agree with this assessment - democrats would've had a better chance TBF Jan 11 #77

There was no "beating Trump" this time. The fuckheads that be (Fox / Heritage / Federalist) already wrote the script. Initech Jan 11 #50

Of course he isn't going to say he would lose JBTaurus83 Jan 11 #58

Absolutely! Uncle Joe's one sly ol' fox... GoldenMezzoDiva Jan 11 #66

Counter-factual. malthaussen Jan 11 #76

A primary would have been nice JoseBalow Jan 11 #79

We'll never truly know if he could've won but we should remember why Biden was the nominee in 2020 Seasider Jan 11 #80

The inability of Democrats to articulate Biden's successes, and the narrative the GOP created on inflation lees1975 Jan 11 #81

Could have, would have, should have...2nd thoughts and more, in analyzing what happened in the 2024 election SWBTATTReg Jan 11 #84

One government, of the money, by the money, for the money. bucolic_frolic Jan 11 #86

Sadly, how true. SWBTATTReg Jan 11 #91

Like how? Nasruddin Jan 11 #85

Joe Biden has never lost a general election. emulatorloo Jan 11 #94

Biden didn't actually say that Progressive dog Jan 11 #92

Joe Biden is absolutely the best President we have had since FDR/LBJ SnoopDog Jan 11 #93

There is no way he would have won. NH Ethylene Jan 12 #101

Honestly, he shouldn't have run for a Luciferous Jan 12 #104

I wish Biden would shut the hell up. Martin68 Jan 12 #106

He is of course, 100% correct -- His own party fucked him Blue_Tires Jan 12 #107