General Discussion

yellow dahlia

(5,352 posts)

104. Well said, Scrivener.

Tue Feb 17, 2026, 12:09 PM

Tuesday

I recall after the last election Earl G suggested the rules regarding criticizing Dems could be a little looser. I think he framed it as we have problems to solve. I hope I am remembering correctly. I was relatively new to DU at the time.

We have all been living the same nightmare now, since November 2024. My personal opinion is we are in a CRISIS! We are in a Constitutional crisis. Our Democracy is on the brink. This is not the usual political dilemma(s). We need to figure out how to save Democracy. We need to figure out how to get out of this Constitutional crisis. We need all hands on deck. We need all ideas on deck. We need to adopt a solution oriented paradigm on steroids.

Should we really have to worry about stepping on peoples' "old school" sensibilities? As long as we offer analysis and critique without engaging in "low blows", shouldn't the discussion be welcomed, rather than quashed? IMHO

Thanks for the great OP, S. And I appreciate the discussion it generated.

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Bettie vanessa_ca AloeVera Scrivener7

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It is not an act of loyalty to quash conversations about our own party's role in getting to where we are today. [View all] Scrivener7 Tuesday OP

Maybe that's why EarlG gave us The Way Forward forum. quaint Tuesday #1

The posting rules are the same everywhere on DU EarlG Tuesday #84

A concern is, snot Tuesday #202

To answer your questions EarlG Tuesday #209

Thank you; that all sounds good. snot Wednesday #238

Get a candidate who supports those things to run in a primary creeksneakers2 Wednesday #211

I did: snot Wednesday #237

Good creeksneakers2 Yesterday #240

It's a bit tricky... ._. Tuesday #2

Yup, what Jason Crow said last week on TV gab13by13 Tuesday #7

Sorry, it's not the Democratic Party. It's Republican voters, third party voters, and petulant nonvoters lapucelle Tuesday #3

Kamala Harris won the election. gab13by13 Tuesday #6

Yup, pedo Trump cheated on the vote count Farmer-Rick Tuesday #30

That's a perfect way to keep losing iemanja Wednesday #213

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Wednesday #233

It's a perfect way to lose Farmer-Rick 21 hrs ago #242

Obviously Trump is trying to control the midterm vote iemanja 20 hrs ago #243

What??????????? Huh? Say what? Farmer-Rick 19 hrs ago #245

Yup! yellow dahlia Tuesday #77

I'm noticing JustAnotherGen Tuesday #9

I can count the leftists I've actually corresponded with online TBF Tuesday #93

I can't do that JustAnotherGen Tuesday #119

Can you "be in community" with Donald Trump? TBF Tuesday #140

I disagree JustAnotherGen Tuesday #145

What is "Magapub/CSA" - TBF Tuesday #159

Magapub JustAnotherGen Tuesday #163

I am old school labor - originally from Wisconsin TBF Tuesday #179

And maga-pub IS NOT a political party---- it is a criminal domestic terrorist organization Jack Valentino Tuesday #207

Thank you sir! JustAnotherGen Wednesday #222

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Tuesday #166

Full Disclosure - I'm in NJ JustAnotherGen Tuesday #149

This insists that any change must come from our opposition. Scrivener7 Tuesday #36

I work hard, every single year, to elect Democrats in races big and small. lapucelle Tuesday #45

I think we here all work hard to elect Democrats. And we have been doing so for years. And yet, here we are. Scrivener7 Tuesday #48

Work harder to shut down opposition narratives, most especially those from purists and punishers lapucelle Tuesday #52

Which, by definition, has nothing to do with shutting down discussions on DU. Scrivener7 Tuesday #53

To begin with, expressing an opinion on a topic is not "shutting down discussion" on a topic. lapucelle Tuesday #66

Really? Cirsium Tuesday #92

That's an odd definition of "purist". lapucelle Tuesday #99

Exactly Cirsium Tuesday #117

Even given the definitional problems (and notwithstanding the random use of latin), lapucelle Tuesday #127

hi back Cirsium Tuesday #128

Recognizing a Latin word and saying your conclusion doesn't follow from your premises is not an argument either Ilikepurple Tuesday #198

Creating your own three term argument by merging two distinct and seperate terms into one lapucelle Wednesday #221

You said even given the definitional problems, there conclusion does not follow Ilikepurple Wednesday #236

You merged two terms into one in an attempt to create a syllogism where none exists. lapucelle Wednesday #239

I didn't take that as an attack JustAnotherGen Tuesday #180

agreed Cirsium Tuesday #183

We shouldn't "shut down" speech Just_Vote_Dem Tuesday #97

Couldn't agree more with you more Scrivener. choie Tuesday #49

It's defining the mistakes JustAnotherGen Tuesday #181

Personally... Chemical Bill Tuesday #190

Yes! mcar Wednesday #234

I agree with you 100% Scrivener7. It is not a fluke that we are in this mess. flashman13 Tuesday #71

I'm really looking forward to the primaries too. We have an incredible bench, and Scrivener7 Tuesday #73

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Tuesday #208

+1 leftstreet Tuesday #103

Joe Biden WAS a great President. Chemical Bill Tuesday #193

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave 16 hrs ago #246

Well said. Thank you again! KPN Tuesday #132

Isn't amazing that SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #40

Thanks for illustrating the problem. FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #65

The problem is Trump and republicans SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #75

I have never seen anyone here say that Democrats are the enemy FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #78

Good SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #88

And what Scrivener is asking is HOW did we get here? CrispyQ Tuesday #100

We got here because of Republicans SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #110

So was it an attack or not? Ilikepurple Tuesday #192

Have a nice day SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #194

What are you doing? Cirsium Tuesday #94

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #98

With deliberate misrepresentation MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #109

Have a nice day! SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #111

Unrec. This is why we can't have nice things. TBF Tuesday #112

It's the Democratic Party which nominates candidates which voters either accept or reject Jose Garcia Tuesday #154

With the (somewhat) arguable exception of 2024, voters choose the candidates. lapucelle Tuesday #165

Mahalo, lapucelle! Some seem to forget Cha Tuesday #170

Thank you for this thread, gab13by13 Tuesday #4

I'm firmly in the FIGHT NOW group. n/t PatrickforB Tuesday #34

Same here. And I'm highly suspect of the motives of anyone demanding we do otherwise. FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #67

Careful! Floyd R. Turbo Tuesday #5

Yep. And that's the problem. This has nothing to do with criticizing Democrats. It has to do with looking at Scrivener7 Tuesday #8

Jason Crow backs up your thread, gab13by13 Tuesday #19

I'm with you right up until the part about nominating a republican. But I get your point. Scrivener7 Tuesday #22

Miles Taylor has no political experience and we know karynnj Tuesday #38

Not fair comparing Miles Taylor with Liz Cheney, gab13by13 Tuesday #57

I will listen to him but just based on what you said MadameButterfly Tuesday #63

I remember all the support here for Michael Avenatti for a presidential run. MichMan Tuesday #64

That doesn't mean we shouldn't want fighters, FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #68

I remember it and thinking it beyond stupid karynnj Tuesday #74

While I'm grateful to Conservatives who have drawn a line and chosen to MadameButterfly Tuesday #62

nominating a REPUKE? Skittles Wednesday #217

If we don't look at the issues of the Dem structure, and question it, then we are in a cult... yellow dahlia Tuesday #81

If you look at my sig line JustAnotherGen Tuesday #10

They want all poor people dead, depopulation is a part of Project 2025. gab13by13 Tuesday #20

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever Ping Tung Tuesday #11

"I am a Christian and a Democrat. That's all": FDR, when asked to define his political philosophy. lapucelle Tuesday #21

That was his choice. That's what democracy is supposed to be about...choice. Ping Tung Tuesday #26

Yes, folks choose to vote for Republicans or third-party candidates or to withhold any vote as punishment lapucelle Tuesday #120

And add mainstream media to that list Just_Vote_Dem Tuesday #125

Just as there's nothing wrong calling out the politicians who support or vote for Ping Tung Tuesday #143

Sir, this is a Wendy's Johnny2X2X Tuesday #12

I'm not talking about ripping on Dems and I'm not talking about anything that violates the TOS. Scrivener7 Tuesday #13

I'd be willing to bet that the same posters jumping all over you also FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #69

I actually express hatred JustAnotherGen Tuesday #184

Fire the strategists and consultant class, The party needs to stop making the same mistakes. yellow dahlia Tuesday #86

YES! The 'strategists' and 'Consultants" don't seem to have Bettie Tuesday #137

That really is at the base of all of it. Scrivener7 Tuesday #144

The other thing that would make a HUGE difference Bettie Tuesday #146

Indeed. yellow dahlia Tuesday #186

Any time we stop speaking truth, we benefit those who want to hide the truth. hamsterjill Tuesday #14

Yours is a great post also, gab13by13 Tuesday #23

Thank you. hamsterjill Tuesday #24

Agreed! yellow dahlia Tuesday #87

It's just demographics Sympthsical Tuesday #15

But at this point, none of us is. I'm that comfortable boomer you describe. Scrivener7 Tuesday #16

Absolutely Sympthsical Tuesday #27

Cheerleaders, the party is always right, swarm, posse, toe the line, echo chamber, blind loyalty, marching in lockstep, betsuni Tuesday #17

And supposedly, MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #116

. SunImp Tuesday #131

Finding out facts instead of leaping to negative conclusions about Democrats is mocked as mindless loyalty. Projection. betsuni Tuesday #164

We failed to read history, but it's only now that history is understood at all bucolic_frolic Tuesday #18

Somewhat related to your OP, discussions quickly sink... harumph Tuesday #25

So much yes to this! All those bad movies about evil conglomerates trying to rule the world? Scrivener7 Tuesday #29

My daughter quipped the other day - "Who knew the original Superman movie was a road map..." harumph Tuesday #42

We are at a confluence of all the evil empire "Bond villain" types. yellow dahlia Tuesday #90

Time for a paradigm shift. yellow dahlia Tuesday #89

It's a return to 1877 to 1965 JustAnotherGen Wednesday #231

As I have said before: popsdenver Tuesday #39

Amen, sis! demmiblue Tuesday #28

I cleared my ignore list a while ago Bettie Tuesday #142

Trump 2.0 could have been prevented by closing the border and having a normal primary dalton99a Tuesday #31

Thank you! intheflow Tuesday #32

I agree popsdenver Tuesday #43

... SSJVegeta Tuesday #33

In his diplomatic, inoffensive way, I think President Obama pointed the way Martin Eden Tuesday #35

I make no bones about it JustAnotherGen Tuesday #188

DURec leftstreet Tuesday #37

For example, gab13by13 Tuesday #41

I think that's a perfect example because it's my opinion that, if Democratic leaders had not gotten so much Scrivener7 Tuesday #44

Yep, things changed Just_Vote_Dem Tuesday #46

And it seems like it took a little outrage to convince them of the fact. Scrivener7 Tuesday #50

That's the problem in a nutshell. AloeVera Tuesday #102

People are pissed at the wait-and-see say-nothing do-nothing approach. dalton99a Tuesday #47

We're in a partial shutdown at the moment. lapucelle Tuesday #113

Eight Democrats voted to end the fillibuster in October, ten in March. Scrivener7 Tuesday #126

Your vote counts in both instances are off by one. lapucelle Tuesday #133

So a groundswell of constituent opinion has no effect on your elected officials? Scrivener7 Tuesday #134

Social media posts and constituent opinion are two very different things. N/T lapucelle Tuesday #167

i completely agree with you. We should be able to speak freely if it is for constructive reason samsingh Tuesday #51

That's a good example of a topic we should discuss in detail. Scrivener7 Tuesday #114

exactly - and given the power trump is wielding samsingh Tuesday #121

So the lesson, which I hope we have learned, is that we release it all as soon as we are able. Scrivener7 Tuesday #122

there can be no healing until the crimes are punished samsingh Tuesday #123

Concise and to the point. Well said. Escurumbele Tuesday #54

100% Agree, Scrivener 7. If we can't see our own part in something we can't improve... johnnyplankton Tuesday #55

Everything changes except one thing that was never addressed, and still isn't. usonian Tuesday #56

It is important to note that WE elected our officials to represent us Grim Chieftain Tuesday #58

That's why we have primaries SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #60

And if they don't uphold the promises they made in the primaries? Grim Chieftain Tuesday #70

Really depends on the promises they made SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #76

And it doesn't need to be a fight. I made mistakes in my job. Scrivener7 Tuesday #79

Agreed. yellow dahlia Tuesday #95

Wanting to learn from the past & do better in the future... CaptainTruth Tuesday #59

Good Luck with that here. n/t ihaveaquestion Tuesday #61

When do we rank-n-file types get to see the Election 2024 Postmortem? Kid Berwyn Tuesday #72

Spot on! yellow dahlia Tuesday #96

Yup Joinfortmill Tuesday #80

This is what those finger-waggers really are FoxNewsSucks Tuesday #82

I do think the DNC is starting to realize that much of the grass roots is really pissed at the party leadership Bluetus Tuesday #83

I think recent events have provided us with a pretty extensive list of things we Scrivener7 Tuesday #85

I have a list. You have a list. The Party does not have a list. Bluetus Tuesday #105

Without a doubt. And Dems -- all Dems -- should be repeating that list. Bluetus Wednesday #229

Please link to these threads: MorbidButterflyTat Tuesday #91

There was one in particular this morning that was a good example. I can't link to it. For reasons I will not state. Scrivener7 Tuesday #107

Milquetoast, strongly worded letters, old guard, status quo, gerontocracy, Vichy Dems, Surrender Dems, betsuni Tuesday #124

Good post Scrivener7, and a worthwhile question to ask. I feel the biggest mistake we may have made is to underestimate c-rational Tuesday #101

Definitely. I agree with all of that. Scrivener7 Tuesday #115

Right? They see us as the enemy Bettie Tuesday #147

Well said, Scrivener. yellow dahlia Tuesday #104

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Tuesday #106

I see the same cheerleaders on this thread. hamsterjill Tuesday #108

I hear you. harumph Tuesday #150

You are absolutely correct! hamsterjill Tuesday #199

Our role in getting here today Quiet Em Tuesday #118

Sadly, I think this is true. We have lost so much civil rights ground Scrivener7 Tuesday #139

I am 59 Bettie Tuesday #151

The adults gulliver Tuesday #129

The Democrats I know aren't lazy, neglectful OR self-indulgent. Scrivener7 Tuesday #135

"Romans and countrymen, lend me your ears?" gulliver Tuesday #136

Thank you so much Scrivener. KPN Tuesday #130

Great OP SunImp Tuesday #138

Thank you for the thread canetoad Tuesday #141

Loyalty means being willing to examine our own missteps Torchlight Tuesday #148

It's not possible currently to discuss mistakes and we are doomed to repeat them again. Melon Tuesday #152

How is it happening in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #156

Beto Melon Tuesday #162

What's he running for? SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #169

See Below Quote Melon Tuesday #172

So what did Beto SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #173

This thread is all about why we don't do that.... Melon Tuesday #175

So who should run in Texas? SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #176

This and your gatekeeping is the issue that prevents open discussion and improvement. Melon Tuesday #177

I'm just trying to understand SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #178

Why? Are you in Texas? Or are you trying to gatekeep? Melon Tuesday #191

No, but am trying to understand what is going on In Texas. SocialDemocrat61 Tuesday #196

And I say again...go read the threads on Talarico or Crockett Melon Tuesday #210

I was asking for your perspective SocialDemocrat61 Wednesday #215

I have a relative running for the Senate, so luckily Scrivener7 Tuesday #157

It has nothing to do with being loyal. It's about fighting back against (often) unfair and unwarranted criticism. W_HAMILTON Tuesday #153

Well, "bullshit criticism" is in the eye of the beholder. Orrex Tuesday #195

I wasn't defending Garland (especially towards the end) nor was I backstabbing Hillary and Kamala. W_HAMILTON Yesterday #241

I may be late to this discussion, but I read it early this morning and just now thought I would add my 2cents. Ninga Tuesday #155

We had the clear advantage in social media Scrivener7 Wednesday #223

We do not need to do this before midterms and publicly oldmanlynn Tuesday #158

Suicidal has been the lack of transparency and free discussion Melon Tuesday #161

The right time is always behind closed doors oldmanlynn Wednesday #218

Absolutely agree! And I've noticed another of the cheerleaders' tactics: Orrex Tuesday #160

That's not an accurate metaphor for your point EdmondDantes_ Tuesday #187

Thanks, but I know what I've seen, and I'm ready to be judged Orrex Tuesday #189

No I expressly don't. But you leap to that conclusion EdmondDantes_ Tuesday #203

Let's just say that the discussion's been going on since before July 21, 2024 Orrex Tuesday #204

And they feel just as strongly as you do about their name calling being calling it as they see it EdmondDantes_ Tuesday #205

I've accused you of exactly nothing except joining the conversation late Orrex Tuesday #206

To quote you EdmondDantes_ Wednesday #220

LOL. No, read it again Orrex Wednesday #226

Sure thing. It's not like you were replying to me or anything EdmondDantes_ Wednesday #228

Bless your heart. Orrex Wednesday #230

The key: 100% confidence one is 100% correct, obviously morally righteously correct. betsuni Wednesday #212

This part: Scrivener7 Wednesday #224

I would remark that biggest reason Dems "lost" Mblaze Tuesday #168

Sounds like you have a problem with the jury system. LudwigPastorius Tuesday #171

She just made the argument iemanja Wednesday #214

No. I think the jury system is kind of genius, actually. Scrivener7 Wednesday #225

I choose to belong to the Democratic party Progressive dog Tuesday #174

I choose to exercise my democratic rights iemanja Wednesday #216

of course you do Progressive dog Wednesday #227

Nether productive or appropriate? iemanja Wednesday #232

Time and place. Zelda_Orchid Tuesday #182

Based OP. BannonsLiver Tuesday #185

The number of RECs, replies, and views to this OP shows just how important to the DU community... Ol Janx Spirit Tuesday #197

I think we all have perspectives and ideas that have value, even if only to further a productive dialectic Ilikepurple Tuesday #201

Absolutely agree & Thank You for saying it! 👍nt Raine Tuesday #200

complicit poozwah Wednesday #219

I agree. But using terms like mcar Wednesday #235

Whenever anyone takes such great care to parse language to justify... QueerDuck 20 hrs ago #244