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Torchlight

(6,569 posts)

59. What then is the precise point at which defense ends and aggression begins?

Reply to PeaceWave (Reply #57)

Fri Feb 13, 2026, 01:38 PM

Friday

How is that defined, and does this apply to all circumstances or simply this one?

This is the problem. Self defense doesn't permit you to then become an aggressor.

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A man was harassing a woman in the elevator. See what she did.♥️ [View all] riversedge Friday OP

Good on her! 3catwoman3 Friday #1

Think? BidenRocks Friday #52

Sadly true. niyad Friday #96

Well, yes, there is that. 3catwoman3 Friday #97

It's all bdamomma Friday #165

life can be challenging when you think with your dick. and so many of them do nt orleans Friday #167

I had a biology professor in college that said something like that. WinstonSmith4740 Yesterday #190

She beat the crap out of him !!!!!!! Yahooooo Trueblue1968 23 hrs ago #191

Good LetMyPeopleVote Friday #2

Sorry, but from a legal standpoint, that's got to be excessive use of force. PeaceWave Friday #3

Nah...and he won't report it anyhow. MineralMan Friday #7

He was immobilized after the kick to his crotch. The knee to his head was overkill. PeaceWave Friday #9

How was she to know that? I would have been scared to death that he would attack again in that closed space. AnotherMother4Peace Friday #15

He never raised his head again after the kick to the crotch. He clearly was no longer a threat. PeaceWave Friday #32

What leads you to assert a momentarily lowered head removes all threat? Torchlight Friday #34

Are you really going to ask a sexual assault victim BidenRocks Friday #60

I included an excerpt from the post I responded to Torchlight Friday #61

Perhaps quotation marks might have avoided confusion. I knew niyad Friday #92

Bet you that those who are trying to give the assaulter protection are not female. efhmc Friday #102

Definitely. MorbidButterflyTat Friday #115

You underestimate the danger she was in ninjanurse Friday #133

Now is that clearly no longer a threat in your eyes or hers? usedtobedemgurl 13 hrs ago #214

Same as emptying a magazine RoseTrellis 15 hrs ago #205

Shooting someone is a bit more damaging than a groin kick Attilatheblond 14 hrs ago #207

Don't think he'll be pressing charges, but if he does, my money is on her. Joinfortmill Friday #17

Maybe a little overkill is what he needed. GaYellowDawg Friday #18

IMO if she stopped short of debilitating him until the doors opened, this story would have a different ending. Hope22 12 hrs ago #220

I am guessing that it must be difficult to be a woman within your circle of niyad Friday #27

Absolutely! SheltieLover Friday #49

What would Krusty Gnome have done?? BattleRow Friday #66

Pulled out her gun? niyad Friday #98

What man would touch Kristie Gnome? maxrandb Friday #124

Well, there is at least one. Wednesdays Friday #131

We can't count her plastic surgeon. :-) nt spooky3 Friday #175

By all reports: Corey Lewandowski ShazzieB Yesterday #179

I hear she has had him pegged from the very beginning. MineralMan 11 hrs ago #223

Nominated for best reply of the century. Maybe Ilsa Friday #71

I am deeply honoured, thank you. My first reaction was unprintable. niyad Friday #87

+1 leftstreet Friday #108

+2 Permanut Friday #118

Great response niyad Brenda Friday #138

Thank you. It took a bit to write calmly! niyad Friday #140

It's been sad to see apologists here for decades. Brenda Friday #142

I am absolutely not surprised, coming from that one Skittles Yesterday #181

So disappointingly true. niyad Yesterday #185

Bravo! BlueSpot Yesterday #182

Thank you. niyad Yesterday #186

The Asshole was groping a woman in an elevator. MineralMan Friday #69

I agree liberalgunwilltravel Friday #95

Some people respond as if it's not the real world people live in. MineralMan Friday #101

Thank you for mentioning training in self defense oberle Friday #169

She made it quite clear after the 1st kacekwl Friday #80

Nobody is immobilized by one woman's kick to the groin synni Friday #88

No it wasn't and her defense was exactly as women are trained to do when being assaulted ms liberty Friday #120

Not from my viewpoint Sanity Claws Friday #10

The legal standard for self-defense allows individuals to use "reasonable, proportional force." PeaceWave Friday #14

You wholly ignore 'Reasonable Fear' Torchlight Friday #20

The fact that she was trapped & couldn't escape changed the situation, IMO. CrispyQ Friday #29

....... bluestarone Friday #38

And she reasoned that he needed a little more reason not to re-attack. MineralMan Friday #74

Your concern for the sexual predator is noted. chia Friday #119

if a guy touches me uninvited Skittles Yesterday #183

Sorry, he had ample opportunity to act in an adult and civil manner Torchlight Friday #11

He put hands on her mcar Friday #22

He wasn't going to stop The Blue Flower Friday #26

That's right mcar Friday #160

He put his hands on her TWICE Seinan Sensei Friday #45

She had every reason to believe he wouldn't stop mcar Friday #161

Is there a legal limit on beating a potential rapist to the floor? I saw no blood, body parts were still attached irisblue Friday #23

Even if in a place with a "duty to flee" IbogaProject Friday #25

Not excessive at all Soul_of_Wit Friday #30

If that was done to my Daughter or my Wife Seinan Sensei Friday #50

Nope. She's got it on video. He was warned. thought crime Friday #33

LOL don't you ever watch scary movies? leftstreet Friday #40

Yeah. You're right. Too bad she wasn't wearing a stiletto, right? PeaceWave Friday #43

Sorry. Your post is just so tone deaf leftstreet Friday #48

Self-defense, not aggression. niyad Friday #51

This is the problem. Self defense isn't a free pass for unlimited aggression. PeaceWave Friday #57

What then is the precise point at which defense ends and aggression begins? Torchlight Friday #59

see post 27 niyad Friday #82

It's not a free pass for anything. Aristus Friday #93

Unlimited aggression? MontanaMama Friday #99

The problem is MorbidButterflyTat Friday #117

Unlimited aggression would have been empting a full magazine on his self entitled ass. Attilatheblond 14 hrs ago #212

Ah, correct! leftstreet Friday #58

And I am so FUCKING PISSED at the misogynistic, patriarchal BS niyad Friday #109

Misogyny is Patriarchy's oxygen leftstreet Friday #110

Absolutely! SheltieLover Friday #67

Stiletto to the eyes face would be an effective response. irisblue Friday #84

There was a reason I used to wear 4-inch heels when I was in public. niyad Friday #125

Stick him with a Hat Pin! BidenRocks Friday #152

Very true. I don't wear hats, since my sunglasses are usually there if I niyad Friday #156

Somehow I think that kick to the balls Hope22 14 hrs ago #208

There isn't a jury on this planet that would convict her. cloudbase Friday #42

He was lucky she didn't pull out a pistol. Nt spooky3 Friday #70

Sadly, you are overly optimistic about juries. I have seen too many niyad Friday #126

Indeed. Some of the posts beggar belief. cloudbase Friday #127

Sadly true! niyad Friday #129

It absolutely is not obamanut2012 Friday #53

If she were a man... Dear_Prudence Friday #54

Killing him would have been excessive use of force Random Boomer Friday #56

And I hope she reported him to the police. Nt spooky3 Friday #72

He assaulted her, she moved away, he assaulted her again Justice 22 hrs ago #192

He put his hands on her. She had no idea what was next. Irish_Dem Friday #62

What legal standpoint? fujiyamasan Friday #65

Thank you for pointing that out. niyad Friday #128

Not a problem fujiyamasan Friday #145

I heard that some Japanese rail lines BidenRocks Friday #157

While that is helpful to a degree, it does not address the problem niyad 17 hrs ago #197

This would be a good training video ! thought crime Friday #171

She was trapped in a box with a man who assaulted her. LuckyCharms Friday #68

"If she had killed him for it, she would have been justified." - Sorry, but no, she would not have been justified. PeaceWave Friday #75

You're very wrong. LuckyCharms Friday #77

No. I'm right and no amount of being upset at me (for raising the point) or the legal system (for being what it is)... PeaceWave Friday #86

I think you're confusing rejections of your assertions with "being upset" Torchlight Friday #90

Snicker Brenda Friday #139

Oh, I'm not upset at all. LuckyCharms Friday #100

She turned and pushed a button BidenRocks Friday #158

See post 27. Keep digging that hole, dear heart. It is such a good look for you. niyad Friday #130

Damn straight niyad. MontanaMama 13 hrs ago #213

I am angry, and disgusted. niyad 13 hrs ago #215

As we should be. MontanaMama 13 hrs ago #216

EXACTLY!!! niyad 12 hrs ago #221

If you are in that situation, you have every reason to believe someone is going to try and rape you. FascismIsDeath Yesterday #189

She was always at risk of him strangling her. Taller/ heavier Hope22 12 hrs ago #218

"Excessive" would have been another two or three kicks to his nuts. GoCubsGo Friday #76

Nope. MontanaMama Friday #91

+1 for the blame comment. - nt CrispyQ Friday #159

She should've shouted "but the DOW is over fifty thousand" Shambala Friday #114

Snicker niyad Friday #132

Public Service Notice ninjanurse Friday #134

Not sure about this because she would surely have been in fear of her life. He assaulted her by PatrickforB Friday #154

Well, if that had gone to trial and she was in the dock on assault charges, and I were on the jury... Jedi Guy Friday #178

I don't think so. A man is bigger and stronger than a woman, so she would be justified in fearing that if she didn't tblue37 Yesterday #184

A women who was assaulted in a confined space she cannot readily retreat from can/should use all the force she can Attilatheblond 15 hrs ago #206

Golly, maybe if he had smiled more she wouldn't have felt the need to fiercely defend herself until she could escape Attilatheblond 14 hrs ago #210

Really? She was still stuck in there with him LearnedHand 9 hrs ago #227

Hope she left some lasting damage dalton99a Friday #4

And That's How You Do It! MineralMan Friday #5

She really dealt with that assaulter but hope she also called security and police to protect other less capable women. MLAA Friday #6

The fact that we are seeing the video... Soul_of_Wit Friday #36

I'm pretty sure a lot of elevators have security cameras in them. MineralMan Friday #78

I assumed it was security video Soul_of_Wit 14 hrs ago #209

Yes. They only look at them if there is an incident. MineralMan 14 hrs ago #211

That was the perfect place to put my last heart. 1WorldHope Friday #8

K&R! Torchlight Friday #12

Good for her! SheltieLover Friday #13

Whoa, don't know if this is real, but I'm gonna use her moves! Joinfortmill Friday #16

He (and Trump) need a dictionary that explain what "No!" means. Ping Tung Friday #19

From 2016, apparently woman is a Beijing TV host and actress. betsuni Friday #21

Thank you for this. I thought it looked a bit familiar. Still relevant. niyad Friday #135

My first thought was AI slop. Thanks for the post. Monsieur_Grumpe 18 hrs ago #196

I wish more women/girls had more situational awareness. irisblue Friday #24

A friend asked me once why I do not use headphones when I am niyad Friday #39

Holy shit that was pretty badass! fujiyamasan Friday #28

Bravo! You go, girl! Vinca Friday #31

BRAVA!!! niyad Friday #37

I do not know whether this was staged (as I remember a similar video niyad Friday #35

Excessive force, Maj. Dude Friday #41

Well done! UpInArms Friday #44

This seems staged. However, IF this video teaches or inspires a woman to: flvegan Friday #46

What more do we know about this? I think it looks like... QueerDuck Friday #47

There is a (possibly apocryphal) story from many years ago in the London tube dickthegrouch Friday #55

She was in danger with no ability to flee until the door opened Ritabert Friday #63

And THAT, my dears, is how it is DONE!!!!! hamsterjill Friday #64

I celebrate her quick reactions--and good aim! hlthe2b Friday #73

Good for her. He has no business putting hands on her. She did excellent. Don't minimize. Srkdqltr Friday #79

Possibly fake video Tasmanian Devil Friday #81

Nope. That is a camera mounted in the ceiling of the elevator car. MineralMan Friday #104

well, i guess i could smile at the camera next time i'm in an elevator -- but i don't think it'll show up very good orleans Friday #168

Looks fake to me. There's a lot of this stuff getting posted in the "reels" Liberal In Texas Friday #107

So.... MorbidButterflyTat Friday #113

LOL! ShazzieB Yesterday #180

This message was self-deleted by its author PeaceWave Friday #116

Wut? Brenda Friday #147

And the only rec for this post calling it AI slop is Brenda Friday #143

Please ... Tasmanian Devil Friday #153

This looks so fake Chicagogrl1 Friday #83

It's fake. They're both amateur actors. Made to be click-bait and passed all over social media. Liberal In Texas Friday #149

Fake or not, if only something like that had happened to a convicted 34-count... the nelm Friday #170

Staged or not, it shows women a course of action in such a situation. niyad 9 hrs ago #225

The "well actually" crowd is in the building mcar 8 hrs ago #228

Yes, but this is about women protecting themselves. The very idea niyad 6 hrs ago #229

Yes, they have to be totally aware of what they are doing mcar 5 hrs ago #230

ggrrrrrrr niyad 5 hrs ago #231

I can't believe that the guy thought that would work. mjvpi Friday #85

He got what's coming to him. bluescribbler Friday #89

She did a fine job. Swede Friday #94

should have kicked him once more when he was down moonshinegnomie Friday #103

It looks rehearsed. Omnipresent Friday #105

"She allowed him...." MorbidButterflyTat Friday #111

I never suggested she put herself in a corner. Omnipresent 22 hrs ago #194

And if he came at her again when her back was against the wall, she could have been trapped. ShazzieB Friday #151

My point is that most people want to see who is lurking around behind them. Omnipresent 22 hrs ago #193

Convince me this isn't staged misanthrope Friday #106

Staged or scripted Tasmanian Devil Friday #112

I don't care if it's staged or not. Dem_in_Nebr. Friday #121

Yeah, even if it was staged or faked, I think it was informative. ShazzieB Yesterday #187

And THAT is how it's done. Javaman Friday #122

If i am alone on an elevator and a MineralMan Friday #123

Used to be a tip of the Fedora. BidenRocks Friday #173

Well, don't expect a tip of the MAGA cap. MineralMan 16 hrs ago #200

I've watched the video a couple of times and IMO no jury would convict her LogDog75 Friday #136

FAFO Timewas Friday #137

I also agree that no jury would convict her. HeartsCanHope Friday #141

She was in an enclosed space with someone making unwanted advances, with no way to know how far he was going DFW Friday #146

Right on. Tactical Peek Friday #144

Not been Rebl2 Friday #148

Same here. And I did not get on an elevator if there was a lone man there. niyad Friday #150

Think back to 2016 canetoad Friday #155

That's about how old this staged video is. Hassin Bin Sober Friday #162

Really? canetoad Friday #163

I'll have to remember that move! ShazzieB Yesterday #188

Can you just imagine the hysteria had she done so? niyad 13 hrs ago #217

Women bdamomma Friday #164

And boy will it be tough in our new burkas! Nt Hope22 12 hrs ago #219

Unless bdamomma 10 hrs ago #224

I look good in red.. Hope22 9 hrs ago #226

If real, she did exactly the right thing. chowmama Friday #166

'Bought 9-10 years ago, my husband broke up a dude from hitting the dude's girlfriend. chouchou Friday #172

She should have nailed him even more. Make him a eunuch. BigmanPigman Friday #174

Good for her! ABC123Easy Friday #176

This message was self-deleted by its author LudwigPastorius Friday #177

excellent job. pansypoo53219 20 hrs ago #195

Busting his nuts! Smart move. ProudMNDemocrat 17 hrs ago #198

Violence is good as long as we agree with the outcome AZLD4Candidate 17 hrs ago #199

Good for Her!! She walloped an Epstein Jr. !! It appears she is trained blue-wave 16 hrs ago #201

ouch... myohmy2 16 hrs ago #202

Just make sure you hurt them bad enough they can't follow you. Linda ladeewolf 15 hrs ago #203

That looked super choreographed LoveSucky 15 hrs ago #204

Message auto-removed Name removed 12 hrs ago #222