End of Life Issues

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts) Mon Jun 29, 2020, 04:27 PM Jun 2020

An old article, but worth a read if you haven't seen it

https://thehealthcareblog.com/blog/2012/08/06/how-doctors-die/

How Doctors Die
Aug 6, 2012

By KEN MURRAY, MD

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or surgical treatment. Medicare didn’t spend much on him.

It’s not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And they don’t die like the rest of us. What’s unusual about them is not how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But they go gently.

Of course, doctors don’t want to die; they want to live. But they know enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and dying alone. They’ve talked about this with their families. They want to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them with CPR (that’s what happens if CPR is done right).

...snip...

more at the link

7 replies

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An old article, but worth a read if you haven't seen it (Original Post) Binkie The Clown Jun 2020 OP

Good articles. I doubt I'd try to fight pancreatic cancer. And I might move to Hoyt Jun 2020 #1

My mother died of pancreatic cancer and refused to even take pain killers. Frustratedlady Jun 2020 #2

There is far too much of "heroic measures" taken, PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2020 #3

My father died of esophageal cancer after... Binkie The Clown Jun 2020 #4

Your story is all too typical. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2020 #5

I agree Binkie The Clown Jun 2020 #6

Right. It is incumbent upon each of us to PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2020 #7

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)

1. Good articles. I doubt I'd try to fight pancreatic cancer. And I might move to

Reply to Binkie The Clown (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2020, 04:37 PM

Jun 2020

state with good sense to allow euthanasia, depending on time constraints.

Frustratedlady

(16,254 posts)

2. My mother died of pancreatic cancer and refused to even take pain killers.

Reply to Binkie The Clown (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2020, 04:57 PM

Jun 2020

She did not go through chemo, either. It was almost as though she would not let the cancer win easily. Eventually, she went into a coma and died a few weeks later. She was a strong woman...much stronger than I would be under the same circumstances.

I think they are now finding better ways to fight cancer, so I would want to explore the options. I've known of 3 people who were told they had Stage 4 cancer, but have beaten it within the last year and are still "cancer free" -- for now, anyway.

On the other hand, my grandson's mother-in-law is at death's door. We are just waiting for the call.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,840 posts)

3. There is far too much of "heroic measures" taken,

Reply to Binkie The Clown (Original post)

Mon Jun 29, 2020, 06:30 PM

Jun 2020

especially with old people.

Depending on what I might some day be diagnosed with, I'd forego a lot of treatments. Make me comfortable, that's all.

I understand that people in hospice or on palliative care actually tend to live longer than the "do everything possible" ones.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)

4. My father died of esophageal cancer after...

Reply to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #3)

Tue Jun 30, 2020, 02:18 PM

Jun 2020

lots of surgeries and chemos and radiation, adn many, many trips to the hospital and the ER.

His twin brother died of the exact same cancer, but chose comfort care only. This uncle lived just a long, but had a much better quality of life without all the desperate attempted "treatments".

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,840 posts)

5. Your story is all too typical.

Reply to Binkie The Clown (Reply #4)

Tue Jun 30, 2020, 04:24 PM

Jun 2020

I think a lot of people just have no idea what is involved in "doing everything possible."

I'm 71 years old, which while it's getting up there, isn't all that old as far as I'm concerned. I'm wonderfully and annoyingly healthy. I have plans for my 97th birthday, and do hope I make it that far. But, and this is a huge but, I want a decent quality of life for however much longer I'm around. I have long had DNR orders, and people close to me know how I feel about these things.

I am sorry about your father. I suspect that esophageal cancer is particularly nasty. Not that any cancer is good.

Binkie The Clown

(7,911 posts)

6. I agree

Reply to PoindexterOglethorpe (Reply #5)

Tue Jun 30, 2020, 05:56 PM

Jun 2020

I'm 75 and thought I was in good health until I just found out I only have about 50% chance of making it to 80. There's no way I would allow myself to be hooked up to "life saving" machines. At my age it would not be "saving a life", but only "postponing a death". And even at only 75 I've still racked up more years than my father ever had the chance to do when he passed 30 years ago.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,840 posts)

7. Right. It is incumbent upon each of us to

Reply to Binkie The Clown (Reply #6)

Tue Jun 30, 2020, 09:55 PM

Jun 2020

live our lives as fully as we can.

I'm a bit bummed because I can't take the various trips I would have been taking without this, and I'm putting a lot of thought into what I will eventually do. But meanwhile, it is up to me to make the very best of my time.

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