I need to think about why that is. They do it so readily. At the drop of a hat, even. Thank you for posting this.

I mean, I think it would be easier to stomach for me, at least, if it was something that only occurred when I was the one encouraging it. I doubt they like it any more than us if the control is taken away from them.

and if I find anything particularly awesome, I will link you to it.

What is your theory on why they're so comfortable doing it?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125538183

everything about sex and sexuality is male dominance and that is just the intent being used. a conditioned norm. a privilege that man feels is their biological right. about intimidation, power, humiliation, control

I think you're right in that virility for men is a big thing, and we have a society where conquest and domination are framed as something positive in sexual relationship (for some reason). Well, as long as it's the men being dominating.

Very deep. So ingrained. and economics is playing into it. I really feel for men. This system has not been kind to them either.

They so readily accept sex from strangers as a substitution for love, I think. (women do this, too)

The need for human touch, warmth, kindness.

Thanks for the hug

have that power over.

get me started, seabeyond. This conversation can go places that I am not sure DU3 is ready to view.

vulgarity, is what we are talking about the men doing this in the text. same thing

Last edited Thu Feb 27, 2014, 02:29 PM - Edit history (1)

that MIRt has to deal with his zombies on a pretty regular basis. They know him pretty well now and, are very good at keeping him from disrupting. I think by now he is as well known to MIRt as is Library Girl. I stop here.

I understand What you are talking about.

I am trying to understand Why men feel the need to do this.

The motivation behind the act.

Like I said my thoughts are just now formulating and not ready for words.

Last edited Thu Feb 27, 2014, 01:39 PM - Edit history (1)

with exactly this. this is exactly who our boys are taught they are suppose to be in order to be masculine.n their definition of manhood.

a good time for DOORS !!

What is their deal?

behavior because of a real problem with women.

I doubt they like it any more than us if the control is taken away from them.

That is exactly the point!

I think a lot of men think it would be cool to be looked at with desire, to have that kind of control over people you don't even know, that they would want to be with you even though they don't know you. There's no pressure to be a good conversationalist, to be clever or funny or smart, or to be anything other than reasonably attractive. Yeah, until you live it every day, that does seem like it would make your life easier.

They don't experience how it's non stop. Every time you step out the front door someone is going to treat you in a way that shows they see you as a woman over a person. Every fucking time. Yesterday it was the young woman at the coffee shop. She was barely civil to me & couldn't even bother to say thank you to me, but she fawned all over the older man behind me, calling him sir, making sure he was satisfied with the amount of coffee in his mug. I doubt she's even 21 & she's already conditioned to treat women as a bother & men with respect.

That's a pretty benign incident, not like the time some creep followed a friend & I around Lowe's or the time a man got angry & belligerent with me because I was changing my own flat tire & refused his help or the time I was waiting for the bus in the dark & two guys walked by & made a comment about my hair, like I wanted that kind of attention at any of those times. Like I had any control over that unwanted attention.

They "forget" that men generally being bigger & stronger than women, have the advantage in these situations, not only physically, but because of that, mentally, as well.

The men who are not getting it are not making an effort. They are immature jerks who think everything is all about them & their precious ego. It's one of the times when I sorely miss using a certain word. Damn. I do miss that word.

Sex is about objectification in their minds. That's why they're objectifying women.

So they assume others have to objectify them to view them sexually.

state of Human Nature at this time. Not sure I am using the best wording here but, I think you get my drift, right.

The main problem with objectification in the media is boys may not be taught anything else. They reach adulthood, and don't know any better.

Many such men figure it out, and stop doing this kind of thing. Some don't.

much dissent on DU3. They have evolved past it and, see no need to argue about it. It is a done deal for them.

I call them "The Silent Majority of DU3"


I do appreciate the vocal minority of men that are willing to step in these threads and help with education of those who are slower to learn, for whatever reason.

From their perspective, either:
1) Human interaction is a massively complex thing with a million variables and very little logical flow. What works great in one instance will fail horrifically in what appears to be an nearly identical situation with different people. Heck, the same interaction can have wildly different results even with the same people in the same situation for not obvious reasons. Figuring out what is going on requires a lot of digging into each individual, their motivations and their history.

or

2) People like to look at hawt men or women.

It's pretty easy to cling to #2, especially if your personality fears or hates complexity. Add some reinforcement from media, and it's very easy to keep with it, right into a miserable old age.

When in Rome do as the Romans.

Question being what kind of Rome(DU3) are we building?

Is it to be a place where ALL feel welcome to discuss ideas and to help get Democrats elected or, not?

There are all kinds of special groups on DU3 where one can get their freak on.

This is why I advocate that TMG not be disbanded.

However, when in GD, -I- think the focus should not be distracted by ..... seeking to humiliate others ideas of dignity.

What I am trying to say is ... when in GD ... I would prefer we err on the side of dignity rather than take chances on offending fellow Democrats.

We seem to have this attitude now, that just because we have the freedom to do something, we should do it & then we should take it to it's absolute extremes. Lot's of things come to mind. The increasing use of violence against women in advertising, the sexualization of girls at a younger & younger age, the genderization of the toy aisle, & the list goes on.

The internet is a great resource for change. Offensive ads can go viral & people post their objections on the company's FB page. Remember those offensive Ford ads. They weren't even for Ford USA, but they took shit for it, too.

Some of the threads have gotten really heated, but it seems to me that more DU men are speaking out to the deliberately dense ones, that they should stand up straight & get their frickin' knuckles off the floor.

they're missing out on an awesome thing. :/

In my experience, most such men figure it out. Though some don't, and their lives are definitely worse off because of it.

It is not a pleasant experience to go through life with a crooked understanding of it. That kind of stuff breeds unhappiness and resentment, and I don't really think anyone deserves to punish themselves that way.

So here's to healthier love lives and more mutual respect!

I also think a good way to deal with random unsolicited cock shots would be to ask what exactly you are looking at, and when they say 'my cock', say something like 'are you sure? Because I've seen cocks before, but they were all so much bigger than that tiny little thing I'm looking at now...."

Telling them they have a tiny penis really seems to bother them.

It stops the conversation before they start to think you're interested.

I think your method might leave more mental scars than a humiliating PM to his mom, though.

"I mean, I'm proud of you. It must take a lot of confidence to stand up for yourself like that and insist on not being defined by your smaller penis size. Size doesn't matter. Really . . . "

I love Southern "politeness."

The only thing missing is a headpat and a 'bless your heart'.

when Mom got the pic,although as a mother of a son,I think it would break my heart.

The guy got what was coming to him, though.

before the self-entitled little narcissist committed date rape or similar.

I would not be surprised if he has not already crossed that line.

knows his ass is in trouble. lol. he went outside the lines his mother drew for him, and by the reaction to mom finding out, he knows she will be disappointed.

the girl/woman who did this to him probably did a world of good for him in a lesson. even though, from what i understood reading it before, he got really ugly about it.

i figure the mom was already on the girls side.

the reality, this is what we are teaching our kids. as parents we are fighting the wave. they step out on their own, this is what they play with. neither our boys or girls are gonna walk this perfectly. so though the young man does not get a pass, and think how the girl handled it was perfect, it make be a huge blessing for the boy, for the future.

or he is a creep

dunno

At least Trevor is laved on alert that he's a morn

But I figured it was worth being posted again.

I'll try to find it.

It's an excellent tactic

out and vice versa. but seemed the other became much more belligerent.

I thought it was posted here though

that receiving a pic like that is sexual harassment, bordering on sexual assault? How is this different from a flasher? Not in the least. It is deliberately breaking someone's boundaries, which some do for the thrill of it, and others do to test how good of a victim she'll be. It's typical rapist behavior in the latter form, because as we know, most victims know their rapist. See if she protests minor violations of boundaries, such as pressure to drink more, or a shoulder massage, even when she signals that she is uncomfortable is typical in these cases. If she has problems voicing her protests clearly enough, usually because of cultural condition, and because she will be considered rude if she isn't accomodating, signals a victim less likely to report, or even tell anyone of a rape. Having the picture of a naked man suddenly show up in your chat may also be triggering to survivors, and I am sure that it is intensely uncomfortable for many others.

Here on DU, though, we have some who would tell us to just not look at the picture if it is so disturbing. I think that tells us a lot about how little interested they are in preventing sexual harassment, assault, and rape.

I think most on DU would call that sexual harassment or assault. I know there are some on DU that would disagree, but not very many (and I agree that even a few is way too many). Outside of DU? Yeah, I think a lot of people would defend that guy's behavior, which is disturbing to say the least. My own opinion is that the response should be the same as someone exposing themselves to a woman on the street - arrest the guy for sexual assault.

Heck, the guy in the exchange even went for the tell-tale "prude" when the woman told him that it was unwanted, which reminded me an awful lot about certain posters.

I like what you said about people pushing boundaries to see what they can get away with. It's the kind of classic example of what to look for when trying to decide of a guy is worth trusting. If he can't take a no when it comes to the little things, how likely is it that he'll take a no for the bigger things?

Thomas M. Miller at the Yes means yes blog calls it "cockblocking rapists" - because boundary testing is such a typical thing most rapists do. As you probably know, the stranger in the bush rapist is a minority of rapists, most victims are raped by people they know, and in choosing their victims, the latter type of rapist must try to find a victim with a low likelihood of reporting. Boundary testing is one of the main ways of checking whether a victim is likely to report a crime.

Most women are taught to not clearly state their wishes -they are to give the softest no, especially to men. We see it in action here on DU every time the men get in a tizzy when women says not to hit on women that don't clearly signal that they are approachable for being hit on - it's all think about the poor menz. Well, for some reason they think that women who have been taught to give a soft no, to not state their wishes, are supposed to be able to do it without any problems in a public setting, when the rapist is deliberately setting things up so that he has cover should she say no. "I was just giving her a shoulder massage!" "I have a girlfriend, why do you think I am a douchebag?" "Can't you take a joke?" It's all very much a strategy, and people who want to fight rape need to learn to speak up. To be the rapist cockblock. Because our whole culture is all about making sure that victims don't speak - which is why the example in the OP is so awesome. She fought back.

We have to teach our girls that's its okay to set boundaries. That it's okay to say NO. That in addition to the kind of insults you used as examples, how often have girls heard these kinds of lines...

"If you really loved me..."
"What are you, a prude?"
"What's wrong with you?"
"Are you some kind of lesbo?"

Of course these are all intended to put girls on the defensive and attack their self-esteem.

I'd be very curious to find out how the mother of that young jerk reacted when she found what her son had been doing.