a boundary some of them would even consider, most apparently.

"Doesn't make them a club I'd like to join or recommend."

There are too many people whose political memories start with Ronald Reagan to understand what it means to live in a better country with smarter people. I expect to get the slam too eventually.

eom

message board.

lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə rəl
adjective
adjective: liberal

1.
open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.

Both were Comprehensive and backed with fact, two things that infuriate closed minds .

drone strikes, the unConstitutionality of such, extra-judicial executions of US citizens suspected of terrorist ties (Al-Awkali), 100+ dead children as a result of drone strikes in more than five countries at which we are not at war (168 in Pakistan alone per a count done in 2011!).

People don't want to hear Obama is both a criminal and should be punished for it. Much less SEE it.

I voted for him. I will not support this unConstitutional series of atrocities by ANY president or representative. I am amazed beyond belief that some imagine party unity requires them to unquestioningly follow such actions unquestioningly.

Unquestioningly following anyone is not a sign of democracy.

Why did they say it had to be hidden?

You can expect to be blocked from posting soon.

Standard post: "Think GOOD thoughts"...

No adult talk at the kiddie table. It upsets them.

it was cross-posted in GD I believe--and got banned. LMAO!

Keep up the good work. I and many others appreciate it.

Many others.

Teabaggers on the left, or firebaggers.

Talk about irony.

1-line long post.

It's quite a sensitive bunch that hangs out there.

I, too, worked hard for Obama's first election and vote for him a second time although I did agree with some of his selections for positions in the government and some of his actions.

If a Republican were behind the drones, Larry Summers, etc., we would be screaming bloody murder as Democrats. As it is, the national party too often discounts us ("Who else will they vote for?&quot . We need to be the moral compass and not simply support an elected official's actions simply because that official is a Democrat.

I was attacked as being transphobic because I pointed out the FACT that Bradley Manning will not get hormonal treatment in military prison, even if I supported the idea that Manning should get the treatment if not paid by taxpayers.

Oh wait, I am transphobic for not calling her Chelsea too!

The alert system is broken, always has been. It randomly picks people to be on the jury, and they get to vote based on their prejudices.

Some guy got off for murder in Florida under a similar situation...

But it's the best we've got.

I'm usually hesitant to HIDE IT unless it's obvious trolling or a nasty call out. We have an IGNORE function, a HIDE THREAD function and policing against hurt feelings or differences of opinion aren't part of being on a jury. That's my opinion, and that's how I judge an alert.

But I have seen longtime DUers called trolls by a member who has requested that a post be hidden when the post merely states the person's opinion and he/she has presented facts to support that opinion.

I am not sure why some of us are so touchy right now.

in any president or party's name. Peace.

No excuse for a comment like that.

and not mostly for the better either.

You are one of the posters I admire and appreciate the most here. You walk the walk!

last week

to juror #5 (since it appears you go looking for the OP's posts): thank you for the best laugh I have had so far today.

has the nerve to post any time soon.

seemed to lose their ability to separate truth from bullshit once the prez had a D behind his name. I voted for Mr. Obama twice, but I've been seriously disappointed in the guy. Also, a great number of DUers seem to have trouble with logically parsing out an issue (any issue, not just Obama stuff) and reacting with rationality and common sense to the issue. I have to wonder if DU has been permanently invaded with trolls, because this is how trolls behave.

Anyway, I appreciate your contributions to this site.

For a couple of different reasons.

1) When Obama had a democratic controlled congress he tried to do the work of the people (health care reform, banking regulations, alternative energy agenda).

2) There was a lot of inertia going in the secret government direction, and the president had to focus on keeping the economy afloat. As a result there are a lot of secret government buildings still under construction (which represents a lot of spending on the secret government), but it would not be prudent to leave a bunch of buildings unconstructed, and structures can always be repurposed.

3) This government was designed to limit the amount of change that one individual can make and especially when that individual does not have 'friends' in both houses of congress.

So, I think a lot of the 'beating up on the president' is unwarranted and a little unfair.

Could he do a better job? Absolutely. Would he do a better job if he had a democratic controlled congress? I think he proved that right out of the gate. Should we be critical of him? Of course, but there's a line between being critical of the president and bashing the president on matters that he has no control over.

It isn't the same to say that someone 'supports the president no matter what' and to say that 'he's doing the best he can under the circumstances.'

That isn't even taking into account that the main stream media is owned by the military industrial complex at a time when he's basically ending two wars and trying to stay out of any other wars. Anyone who gets their news from television gets an anti-Obama slant.

I think the president is doing the best he can under the circumstances.

I got an education today confirming something I feared. these people are true RW, regardless of what they are calling themselves. I thought this was knee-jerk defense of the Obama admin, but it's something deeper and more ugly- it's blind obedience to the security state.

Stay with it- the truth burns them. You may never convince them, but the people visiting DU need the information and background/legalities of it. Minds are being changed, and the masks are coming off. It's a scary and exciting time.

But yes, it just surprised me to see them write it out in more or less plain engrish.

The disappointment felt by them is also whats behind some of the criticism he now gets here on DU.

Looking back, you're right, they always win.

But that was pre-OWS, and the 99% thing was not well felt.

The "Not Bush" thing WAS felt though...and it was entirely wrong. I considered the inauguration ceremony to be the declaration by the President of "No, I am not one of you people. I'm one of the elite now. No, I do not stand with the LBGT community, I am a conservative religious person. No, I am not going to prosecute Bush or Cheney, they are my people now."

Too bad he's wrong- he's not part of the elite, he's their lackey. He'll be kissing their ass and taking crap from them forever, just like Bill Clinton.

Well said.

He used the very weak excuse of extended unemployment benefits. It's been bullshit from day one.

That's just a fucking fact.

Times are changing and the old is falling away. Those who have held power are fast losing it. The detoxification is bringing a lot of ugly to the surface.

But have been reading/lurking here fairly frequently for a long time, and the tone of the divisiveness seems to have changed over the past couple of months. Seems like in the past the conversations were more about passionate exchange of ideas, but now this site seems to have been infiltrated by very right-wing posters. They usually respond near the top of a well-thought out OP and, instead of arguing it sincerely or rationally, throw around glib remarks and muddy the waters of conversation until the top of the comments is filled with a bunch of nonsense. This distracts greatly from the OP's in my opinion.

One other thing I'll mention: I ALWAYS read comments hidden by jury decision, good or bad.

That juror should step up, identify themselves and own it.

(And thanks as always, for all the info you post.)

At least that the sense I get......

Was that a random guess? I bet a pretzel you're arely likely to be climbing on the wrong staircase here.

after all; anonymous is anonymous.

just a " one-off " originating from the land of snark.

And what is it with Pretzels these days? why are the all being made into Sand wich buns?

The answer must be blowing in the Wind. Its enough to send a Warrior to the Pwn shop.

( Must remember to call Mother )

Good one!

because I know I'll get a ton of knee-jerk defensive reactions from those who still have faith in the System. It is now almost impossible to do so, as there seems to be a concerted effort to get a lid on any dissent here. I hate republicans and the so-called libertarians ,too. The Libertarians sound good, until they start talking about extending liberties to the corporations, which amounts to letting them do as they please.

You must be hitting a nerve. I do not know how they can keep trying to cover the President, when we have new information daily about abuses and overreach.

I don't think the juries are stacked with us "jackass confederates"; I haven't been on a jury in months!

I think the key thing to remember is that we are not here to change the minds of those that attack us; we are here to provide an alternative to the Party line. Honest opinion will always have value. I also believe that opinions on the Web are noted by some in the Party, so it is important to speak out if you have a dissenting opinion.

gotta go; keep up the good work....

They broke DU rules in their reason and they abused their power.

Gotta love that they are calling you uncivil in that explanation. Whoosh!

...and says he will alert you just because of your "nonsense"

That juror should be struck from the pool. Is there no way to judge the jurors who exhibit bias and bigotry?

Why does DU allow that sort of verbal abuse from a juror to another DU member?

I've neither run nor administrated a website or similar but I've seen enough heads beating against each other bloodily to know that such is the nature of communication when enough is at stake. I have no idea how to manage it if the participants do not wish to be manageable, but not simultaneously be so far outside of acceptable that they can be removed.

. . . but they WON'T succeed! Hang in there, FWWM!

...they now love Big Brother and will do anything, even discharge any principles that they once may have held, to keep that love intact. They fear chaos and love Big Brother's harsh order because they think that it will keep the chaos at bay. Chaos is defined here as anything that the system hasn't ordered or approved of, like flowers blooming, birds singing and people being free.

- Do not concern yourself over the acts of frightened children. Even they will one day soon, have to open their eyes to TRUTH and grow up.

K&R

as well as via religion. Having had some fear in my own life as well (understatement) I can understand and sympathize but when it comes down to interfering to the positive course of the nation, it's a problem

#5's comment is one that would eliminate a juror from consideration for a court case in a heartbeat.

I think this may be the first time I've ever had a post solely devoted to me.

Yay!



FWIW, I was not the juror. I was the one who made the post he was alerting on. Why did I make it? Because the OP was yelling at Obama for signing the student loans bill because it raised interest rates by .4% ... but constantly ignored the fact that if he didn't sign it, interest rates would've risen much larger had he done what the poster wanted (hint: not sign it). It was a disconnected post. I made a comment, he came back with a bunch of useless links that had nothing to do with the topic and that's when I said he was ranting like that.

At DU it's easy to get in with the in crowd by demonstrating how disappointed you are with the POTUS.

By itself, it's not so bad, but when it's done with the ignorance of the reality of the situation, like the fact that we have a CONGRESS to deal with, then it looks very amateurish and pathetic.

This thread is now full of the typical suspects who are silent most of the time but when an Obama bashing post pops up, or a us versus them thread is available, well there they are!



How ya been?

But I also think we have zealots.

And I think this OP is whining about DU and should be locked, but unless someone else alerts on it I'm not going to give it the time of day.

I think that purging our emotions from time to time isn't a bad thing.

Do you also believe there are zealots that can't stand to hear any criticism of Obama and will defend him no matter what he does? And that they have their own "in crowd"?

I agree with the purging of emotions. And I rather agree with not having these types of divisive OPs. This one however, highlights the ugliness of that juror so I feel it needs to be seen. But in the past I have alerted on any of these us vs. them OPs whether or not I agreed with the poster's sentiments or not.

I really wish there was less of this us vs. them mentality on here. But from the first post of yours that I replied to I take it you think it's due to the Obama critics and I think it's due to the Obama loyalists. If this board were better moderated none of that in any shape or form from either "side" would be allowed to stand. It would be a big undertaking though, as there is a lot of activity on here.

I think there's plenty of blame to go around for DU discord, Obama supporters and critics alike.

Many supporters don't venture into GD at all, and others have left altogether. Nance Gregg and JeffR, former DU fixtures, don't come around at all anymore.

In any event, I don't know if juror #5 was legit, doesn't sound like anyone I know, and it's an abuse of the jury system and it happens a lot!

It's funny how the anti-Obama-ers will attack without even knowing what they're attacked.



How've you been?

allows for trolls and disruptors to cut off honest conversations. Sometimes it's like McConnell has infiltrated DU.

Perhaps they should come to realize that this in and of itself is a Problem deserving of reflection and positive solution. "Do what we say or else" IS the problem.

Juror #5 has served on hundreds of jurys...and interesting that he feels bold enough to tell you how biased he is...as if to stick a thumb in your eye.

It is only a theory of mine, but I think they know how to rig the system....I can't tell you how they do it because I am just one step up from a computer idiot, but this is not the first time I have seen this happen.
And I think there is a small but dedicated group that is here to cause trouble among us and to keep us at odds with each other...

But just know that we care about you and appreciate all that you do here...and don't let them get under your skin.

Interesting point that they're attempting to rig the jury system. I can see that as a definite possibility. This is not Democracy!

The RW is losing its collective mind and the zealots need some where to go,being dispossessed.
They appear to be coming here in attempt to push the liberal ideals further towards the right that they are fleeing.
Our President is also moving further to the right and dragging the faithful with him.
The further right the BOGer's go,the more they act like conservative zealots i/e:
Intolerant,Close minded,Homo and Transphobic.

The worst part is that President Obama is the best we have all things considered.
I just wish we had Candidate Obama back before he was perverted by JP Dimon Chase.
Yeah,go ahead and throw an alert on this post for trashing the Lickspittle in Chief.
I've been thrown out of nicer places then what DU has become.
It's no skin off my sac.

create dissent. Those such as Juror #5 who blame me for exactly that don't get that I'm not one of those; I've been here for years and voted for Obama. I'll call bullshit on any representative who deserves it, period. Occupy is about naming and changing the problems we face and in =my= opinion (I do not speak for Occupy), Obama has made himself an enormous problem directly along the lines of what we've already named and decried. This may be difficult for party members to face but it IS possible to unify and to do something better, such as rallying around FDR "New Deal" and "Second New Deal" values (which unfortunately are against Obama's financial decisions and the will of those he blatantly supports).

It can be done. Peace.

Alternative viewpoints from freethinkers will always be perceived as a threat to those in positions of power regardless of whether they earned those positions or were ordained by Moses in the Torah(Old Testament).
If an idea is very good then they have to be introduced to it kicking and screaming,they will fight tooth and nail to obstruct it but when it surpasses all expectations,then it was their idea all along.
Judging by their hostility,you almost have them to a glimmer of cognition.
Keep driving the train,eventually they will arrive.

because I know that I will learn something or find that I am not the only one who understands a certain condition of our world. Carry on and don't look back too often.

Jurer 5 "Fire Walk With Me is such a stupid asshole propagandist" That is a blatant violation of the rules. Freaking clown jury system.

I get called an asshole all the time, and no one seems to think that's a violation. The system isn't 'fucked up'. Its the participants.

There has been a another extremist group around here that used to do it. All it takes is an understand how the Jury system works and some friends. DU has its share of one issue fanatics. Reality, truth and facts do not persuade them.
There was another group, up until a few months a ago doing this. A couple of high profile people left and things settled down for a while. Now another group is rising up to full th vacuum.

Part of the answer is to be more selective on who can be a juror. But basing it on the number posts hidden will only make things worse, as the attack on Fire Walk shows.
I have an answer, but it probably won't fly very well and I am not in charge. But what do I know? I am a Left of Center Liberal, who knows FireWalk With Me, is one of the more mature, thoughtful members of DU. Unlike those who attack us for not being fanatical enough on their single issue du jour.

But I do see your point. Something needs to be done. There needs to be a way to remove the one issue fanatics from the Jury pool, or better yet, even some from DU itself. I'm sure we both have overlapping lists.
There are a few of high profile Conservatives here, both foreign and domestic, dragging DU to the Right.
Hiding posts of long time members, for stating provable facts, with links is beyond the pale. Something needs to be done.
Democratic Underground used to be just that. Now it is turning into Right-wing spin site, where you are supposed to toe the line of whatever group that demands it. Fuck that. I, for one will continue to post my opinion regardless of what they think.

Needs something about violation of DU's written rules. Not some bullshit where somebody decides for themselves DU'ers will do or not do, as the jury system was set up to do.
An example would be, "DU does not use that word". Ahh, yeah we do. That's why you're upset.
Another being the posting of something about Obama or Hillary or both, that is not out and out praise. "How dare anyone not hold them in reverence" Ahmmm... Because they don't deserve it on a Left leaning political message board?

DU is as much of an experiment as Democracy itself. Skinner and crew try, that is definite, but human nature always steps in (should I say, steps in it). Peace!

and don't let them win. They want to drown us out, I'v been noticing in some threads. They pretty much attack on site. Don't under estimate us, we are many, so don't stop posting.

peace

-p

versus just "theirs". Which is Democracy. Peace.

Hmm...Why slather on so many epithets? stupid, asshole, propagandist, imbecile, jackasses, moronic...

I smell cognitive dissonance.

approve, and it would appear they are taking note of what upsets some of their targets. In other words, I experienced several ad hominen personal attacks yesterday and imagine they will continue. Watch for how they come after each of you. Peace!