Their stated perspectives become increasingly clear cases of denial of fact. Some already sound like propaganda catapults.

I have no idea why they worked for so long, but even among the Ministry there are more and more defectors.

Good to know that the indefensible gradually becomes indefensible.

I wasn't sure if any bots or apologists would post on it if they were "called out" in advance.

going on in this country. Somebody posted the 14 points if fascism and it looked as if we were in lockstep. Not the America I grew up in.

edit to add: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=71162

One can criticize the direction the Obama administration has taken and such criticism is not trumped by the snarky "Romney would have done better." I don't think that Romney would have done better; neither did most voters- that's why he lost. But it is likely that most votes were not just anti-Romney, but pro-Obama- hoping that the vision and agenda he projected was closer to the American ideal. I feel a sense of betrayal- the corporatists of Wall Street and Main Street still rule, torture has gone unpunished, NRA is confronted by speeches and no real muscle even with an opportunity to make some real change in our gun-derangement society and we have become a surveillance state. Not what I voted for. Nor did I ever expect than ron or mitt would have done anything but make it worse. Here's hoping at least that ACA (O. did not fight for single payor) helps in the long run. It's unfortunately ironic that the one piece of legislation that did pass was based on a mitt plan. Ask Madison Ave. if they ever ran an ad campaign with the statement "Well, at least it's not sh*t." Not a strong selling point or a good argument to continue to give Obama a pass. We have to develop strong progressive politicians and not be satisfied with corporatist democrats. Maybe crowning Hillary is premature- she was one of those "third way" democrats that ended up watering down the progressive agenda. Let's not be fooled again.

Thank you for this cogent rebuttal to the trite assertion, "Would Romney have been better?!?" I am sad about the increasingly derisive and divisive discourse on this website. The more we argue, the happier are the corporatists who're running the show.

After you're done digging it back up, can we fill the hole with water and go for a swim?

because I didn't want those that worked so hard to elect him to tune out or just blindly attack anyone who had issues with his administration. Now, however, it seems unavoidable to see that the entire government is compromised. There is enough evidence now that all rational human beings must formulate an opinion. Clinging to a sacred cow is no longer acceptable. The Executive branch is connected to intelligence services and ,as such , accountable for their actions. Check out Ray McGovern interview on the corruption of US intelligence to get an idea of how it works.

And let's be honest about the "facts"; no matter how many links we provide,it is still up to each of us to interpret the data we receive. We are all Denizens of the Net™, and we are all capable of looking this stuff up ourselves.Indeed , that is how it should be. If I demand "facts" and you post a link, is it a surprise that my next move is to denigrate your link? At some point, you have to look at all you have seen and formulate an opinion.

We constantly see post demanding that we " get the facts ", or claiming that " there is no proof";

how ridiculous.

While I DO have hope that the document that unequivocally states that the Government IS spying on us for the benefit of corporate America will arrive at my doorstep unredacted (if that is a word ), I know , deep down that it is not going to happen.

So, all the apologists out there can rest easy in the knowledge that there will be no "smoking gun". The NSA is not going just say " aw, shucks. you are right. we're sorry". They will do what they want, and We can do nothing to stop it.


Money is corrupting our system to the point that even the pretense of Democracy is eroding.

I applaud the FireWalker for spreading awareness.


it is much needed....