Cheap shot,I know.
it just seems like everybody just snatches up the mainstream talking points and unleashes their raging indignation, absolute certitude, and total intolerence of dissent.

in comparison with other "developed" nations.

All correct, unfortunately.

That it is just a misinformation campaign so that Bill Gates and his ilk can take over the education system.

Where are you getting your information?

They are easily discoverable, from many years and show the clear results.

U.S. Students Still Lag Globally in Math and Science, Tests Show
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/education/us-students-still-lag-globally-in-math-and-science-tests-show.html?_r=0

Fourth- and eighth-grade students in the United States continue to lag behind students in several East Asian countries and some European nations in math and science, although American fourth graders are closer to the top performers in reading, according to test results released on Tuesday.

Fretting about how American schools compare with those in other countries has become a regular pastime in education circles. Results from two new reports, the Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study and the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study, are likely to fuel further debate.

South Korea and Singapore led the international rankings in math and fourth-grade science, while Singapore and Taiwan had the top-performing students in eighth-grade science. The United States ranked 11th in fourth-grade math, 9th in eighth-grade math, 7th in fourth-grade science and 10th in eighth-grade science.

In the United States, only 7 percent of students reached the advanced level in eighth-grade math, while 48 percent of eighth graders in Singapore and 47 percent of eighth graders in South Korea reached the advanced level. As those with superior math and science skills increasingly thrive in a global economy, the lag among American students could be a cause for concern.

http://nces.ed.gov/timss/
http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/international/ide/
In 2011, more than 60 countries and other education systems, including the United States, participated in TIMSS. More than 20,000 students in more than 1,000 schools across the United States took the assessment in spring 2011, joining almost 500,000 other students around the world who took part in TIMSS. Because the Progress in International Reading Literacy Study (PIRLS) was also administered at grade four in spring 2011, TIMSS and PIRLS in the United States were administered in the same schools to the extent feasible. Students took either TIMSS or PIRLS on the day of the assessments.

In addition, to address the interest in states benchmarking to international standards, NCES is initiating a new effort to link the states scores from the national assessment—NAEP-- to TIMSS. The 2011 NAEP-TIMSS Linking Study is designed to provide all states with estimates that compare their own students’ performance against international benchmarks. Read more about the 2011 NAEP-TIMSS Link here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trends_in_International_Mathematics_and_Science_Study

that are ignoring you; post that over on the education forum.

They tell me that the only problem with education in America is the deformers (as they call them).

Is that a public school vs. private school or charter school thing?

You probably should ask them though.

There is a lot of anger toward Bill Gates specifically. There are companies that see that there is a lot of money in the education system, and those companies are trying to go in and scoop up that money. They feel that these companies are misrepresenting the current state of education in this country to get citizens to get behind the reform efforts. Of course it isn't appropriate to claim that this is the position of all educators, but several people have told me that.

Apparently I use a lot of 'code words' that the reformers use. I've told them that I'm just a parent and former student who feels that the system has failed them, but they seem to feel that the system is good now and should not be tampered with.

I know what Americans say, in order to comfort themselves, about the Japanese school system.
They say that it doesn't teach "creativity" the way the American school system does. That it turns people into robots, etc.
Well, that claim may have about .05% truth to it, but they go to school 230-240 days a week compared to, I think, 180 for American kids. They learn A LOT. I have an 18 yr. old, a 15 yr. old and a 9 year old. Let me tell you it is impressive --and it isn't just academics. They learn how to be social with each other, to get a long, to grow vegetables, tie knots, clean, cook, nutrition, gym class for REAL FITNESS, etc. Japanese kids wear school uniforms which means they aren't competing to look like Justin Bieber or the like. For them, identity is not fashion growing up (except on weekends)

America is turning out incredible dummies, and lazy ones too. It needs major reforming.

End of rant.

That our system needs to be updated. Although I don't see sending kids 230-240 days a week

The first thing that we need to get rid of are the short days and even shorter school year (based on a decades obsolete agricultural society).

There are changes that I have discussed with them, but they very strongly believe that it will only get worse with reforms. I hate to say a lot of bad things about them, but I really do wish that they had more exposure to what it looks like in other countries.

I know we can do better here.