So I guess my wife, who supports Sanders, is going to hell because poor little Hillary might not her way?

What bull!

Madeleine Albright - The deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it for Iraq's non existent WMD's

Why are we demanded to make a choice between these two inept candidates?

Both are horrible, and no good can come out of supporting either.

Clintons at the Trump wedding to find the two faces. The orgasmic look on the Clinton/Trump couples' faces makes a thinking person wonder if it is all one big set up?

Are the two different? Sure,

But 'they' just divvy up the positions within the limits allowed by the money handlers.

this ^^^^^

this board, especially given that the remarks they make are being made on the Occupy end of the forum.

I do think it is a good idea to try and figure out why so many Democratic voters are willing to embrace a Clinton or a Feinstein as Democrats. There is ample evidence, for instance, that Sen. Feinstein threw the gubernatorial race in Calif over to Ahnold, not once or twice. Should we ban people for insulting Hillary Clinton, or should we start to wonder why so many Big Wig Party leaders are neo cons to the right of Richard Nixon? Oh and of course, the dishonest and barbaric Feinstein will support Clinton, as after all, birds of a feather do flock together.

Pertinent to this discussion is the fact that right now, 42 to 43% of all registered voters are sick unto death of Both of the Two Tentacles of the One Big Money Party. The Dem leaders can only rely on 29% of all voters to be party loyalists, willing to vote for anyone with a "D" after their name.

It IS possible that BOTH options are unacceptable.

Hillary and Trump are the most disliked nominees in the last 10 presidential cycles.

Trying to steal the last of the wealth before the crash and keeping ahold of power until then.

I smell panic, though.

MAKE AMERICA A DEMOCRACY AGAIN!

-90% Jimmy

Too bad we will taken to hell alongside them.

Until such time as I can disentangle myself from my present obligations, I suppose I shall have to continue "propping up the oligarchy" -- i.e. continuing my work providing engineering services to government and industry, paying of my JP Morgan Chase mortgage, supporting the major oil companies, and voting for Democrats.

It gets around 160 MPG and get it's electricity from hydro and wind.

Now if I can get rid of the gas furnace.....

Too bad I won't cut the trees on the south side of my house to install solar.

I'm the head of the local chapter of a statewide group of community organizers for environmental and social justice. I compost all of our kitchen waste and speak up at county planning commission meetings.

I drive a gasoline-powered 1995 Toyota Camry.

We're born into a world we didn't create. Some people try to make it better, each in their own way. I won't be casting stones indiscriminately. There are plenty of legitimate targets.

Had our vn. It used up 8 miles to the gallon.

Whenever we went anywhere, we got asked why we used such a gas burner. Of course, the tycoons at the HMO's that hire incompetents who mis-diagnose people and cause them to enter the hell of medical bankruptcy don't get asked those questions. Just the people who only have one thousand bucks for a car, and can't get credit.

decided to cast them at progressives I see.

this is about a careless and reckless OP.

Tell me, are you "propping up the oligarchy...IN ANY WAY (caps/emphasis mine)"?

Do you pay taxes? Do you drive or fly? Do you participate in the banking system? Do you purchase goods and services from major corporations (Verizon/Microsoft/GE/etc.)?

Well, if you answered "yes" to any of those then you are most definitely and unquestionably "propping up the oligarchy" and there is a "special place in hell" for you.

Obviously, such a careless and reckless statement as the OP just passes without comment in this self-affirmation clique.

If you want to play "who's the better progressive?" with me, my guess is you will lose.

with your definition of propping and your hyperbole (careless and reckless). Propping is politically supporting candidates who favor corporations over people with your vote, time (volunteering), or money. All that other stuff is living within the conditions that exist.

The Clinton "progressives" have always favored business/corporations over people on every major economic policy decision. Hard to defend that as more progressive in light of the longer term economic failure. Clinton progressives/Third Wayers//New Democrats are progressive on social issues, conservative on economic. The proof is in the pudding, but they -- like Republicans are so wedded to their elite economic theories they ignore the facts.

I was at SOCM (Statewide Organizing for Community Empowerment) board meeting over the weekend. We debated for probably 20 minutes over whether or not a proposal we were considering would use the words "anti-racism", or "racially inclusive", or some other variant of inclusiveness.

My point is that language matters. If you want to build a movement, you'll pay attention to it. If you're only interested in a building a club for the "in crowd", then don't worry about it.

I don't need a lecture about forms of social and political organization. "Globalization" or "free trade" is a tool that the rich and powerful have used for centuries to oppress, enslave and steal from the less powerful. "Civilization" is tool for the rich and powerful to steal and keep for themselves water, land, and resources. Separate the people from the land base to make them wage slaves dependent on corporations for food, water, and shelter.

A smart person doesn't shit on people who might one day be on their side.

My reaction was solely about the "indiscriminate" targets. I take exception to that largely because I've operated from within the system for 65 years, 44 of them voting years, consistently Democrat up and down the ballot. I have done fairly well personally, but I have also always had open eyes despite playing the game. My eyes tell me the system, has failed the average American. ... My kids talk to me a lot about the "community level" as the place they can actually affect change. So I get that. But it doesn't fix the larger problem, and I genuinely do not believe incrementalism will either.

My point is your indiscriminate is another person's discriminate. As you said, words matter.

I suggest you click on "About this Group".

I was hoping it was satire but your last few words about voting democratic dashed that. You sound as if you're a Hillary supporter.

We believe that we can keep our jobs, pay our bills, yet Change the system that props up the oligarchy. Very sorry you have a problem with that.

"A place for Occupy participants and supporters to promote the values of Occupy Wall Street" Not a place to prop up the oligarchical status quo. Plenty of other forums to do that in.

What? Of the people, for the people, and by the people, where's the part about the corporations? Oh, yeah, I forgot. Corporations are people, too, because they have feelings and care about more than profits.

Clearly a radical far left pie in the sky concept.

And I say that in the case of the oligarchs themselves (only the reactionary ones), that place should be Haiti or Liberia. Many of their apologists will be charity and aid workers in these countries, compelled to give back so that these people's lives might be a little less hellish.

Hell, you see, does indeed exist: it's in certain places humanity made that way.

who nurture poverty and despair.

Not me. I'm Berning for eternity.

And I will bern with you!

A place in Hell for trolls? We seem to have a lot of them around here, so watch out.

what they asked for.

You just have to be able to pay to play

And everyone props up the oligarchy by participating in the economy.

What an vacuous post, without a single idea.

IMO.

It's that neither Party supports the interests of the working class.

America is prosperous when the working class is prosperous, and both Parties are selling us trickle-down Reaganism.

which it isn't. There is no such thing. Therefore, the entire statement is irrelevant.

Not by posting useless memes on a internet forum.

is not a "uselss meme on a(n) internet forum".

People lose faith quickly in a system in which they can see that they are not being allowed to vote. It doesn't matter what the excuse is - no ballots, voting locations closed, registrations flipped, coins tossed, etc ...

What they see is that their voices do not count. They are not going to run for office if they aren't being allowed to even cast their votes.

What you folks are asking for is revolution. And it won't be the on paper political kind if you suppress that method.

Conditions will dictate.