Amazing how tone deaf our Leadership Class is. They as a collective group just do not give a rip.

Were Done Being Ripped Off By The 1%

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017353617

Why did the Clintons trash Air Force One before leaving?

Why did Bill Clinton sell high grade, low sulfur, Utah coal to the Chinese?

These and other lies brought to you by Karl Rove's smear machine.

Thanks for bringing them back, Sanders fans! Show a lot of insight.

Posts like that are typical mis-direction, just like a skilled magician

A child could see through his "mis-directions".
Ever been to a really BAD Magic Show? The above is worse.

Legally should have had civil penalties not criminal penalties. Remember, this was at a time when republicans were throwing EVERYTHING they could at ANY democrat, especially those a who supported Clinton.

Marc Rich and Pincus Green 's company paid over $200 million in fines and penalties. Clinton pardoned the criminal charges and left them on the hook for further civil suits.

You could read more about his decision here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html

can decide.

The pardons of Marc Rich and Pincus Green without first allowing them a trial followed by the exchanges of money whether with a charity or anything else look like pure corruption of the most obvious and despicable kind.

A criminal charge can be dropped by the prosecutor or tried in a court and perhaps dismissed by the court. But a presidential pardon for criminal charges followed by a gift of money to the president or his foundation strongly suggests corruption.

A shameful moment in Bill Clinton's presidency.

Bill's wife. She and Bill said we were getting a twofer when we elected Bill, both Hillary and Bill.

This is not a concept created by Bernie supporters to bring down Hillary. They were a team in the White House and were proud of that fact. She is responsible for Bill's policies for that reason.

It's ALL she's got going for her. And it ain't pretty anymore.

I think we are discussing 2 separate penalties here

1) Corporate Penalties and Fines

2) Criminal Liabilities - which Clinton pardon Marc Rich from

The fact his wife placed a cool $1Million in the Clinton Foundation was "Icing on the Cake" proving once again 2 separate systems of justice.

1) Extracted out of Black and Brown Teenagers at the end of Law Enforcement's service revolver

2) The Wealthy Elites Money driven defense as seen by Marc Rich and OJ Simpson

OJ brutally murdered two people!

That's a steep 'six degrees' of making two things seem similar.....

I think OJ paid $5Million


Point being neither spent a day in jail for their crime

Marc Rich, was pardoned for a million dollars.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

which is not the same as innocent.

I get it! Why should a member of the One Percent have to go through that pesky appellate process when they can just slip a million to the Clinton Foundation!!?!?!

have a pleasant day!

Cause you da man - or woman.

I'm a retired lawyer and law professor - you got any legal creds?

nt

Mossad has a word for active agent of influence. Rich was one of those.

Looks like his widow was grateful.

No one said anything about these weird things. The Clintons are not angels, not even close. They have proven over and over again that they only care for themselves and the 1%. Open your eyes. At any time, for any reason, you could become one of us poor.

Z

then talk about who is corrupt!

Sen Sanders is apples and H. Clinton is Jupiter.

Release the speech transcripts.

What is he hiding?

You have to go back to Limbaugh.

He can't WAIT for his big comeback.

See what I did there?

It was corruption thru and thru but those that idolize the Clinton and their Pseudo-Aristocracy are blinded by their adulation.

Speak out about the Republicon corruption but close your eyes when it's the Clintons.

There is no answer to this that doesn't come from the Freeper Bible of Clinton Despise.

I'd suggest you just drop it.

Your Big Dog Bill traded a pardon for cash. Very straight forward. The corrupt culture of big money permeates our government. I bet you agree except for some reason are bling to the involvement of the Clintons. The corruption that you are willing to ignore leads directly to job losses, poor or no health care coverage, lost homes, more homelessness, more infant mortality, a crumbling infrastructure that the 99% will have to pay for, and deaths in Iraq and other wars for corporate profits.

How many Americans have to sink into poverty before you recognize that wealth in the most part is zero-sum. The more profits you let Goldman-Sachs steal from us, the less food we have, the less health care, the less Social Security, the more deaths.

Are you going to answer my question or not?

answer my questions." Homey don't play that game.

There are two sides to the Class War and not only is Clinton a big time member of the "Rich and Powerful", she accepts money from her friends in the 1% and 0.1%. She is not fighting for us.

Bottom line: your only response is Bernie's only response.

Message received.

Have the last word.

They have had this in the pipeline for a very long time.

What good does that do you?

"Hey look over there, Bernie Sanders' shoelaces are undone."

ABC News: Denise Rich Gave $450,000 to Clinton Library
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121846&page=1

thanks

Pretzel logic.

What the f*ck could Mark Rich have to do with HRC?

Or is it simply fun to pretend you're Karl Rove and dish out all the bullsh*t that crosses your mind?

If it's negative, they don't care where it came from.

the existence of the Clinton Foundation.

A better answer might have been "because they were friends."

Personal attacks are not done around here, or they shouldn't be.

ETA - thank you for deleting. We're all on the same side (Bernie's that is) - no need to sling mud.

As I said, I believe the Foundation DID NOT EXIST when the pardon occurred.

I also recall hearing about a large donation made by the wife.

Please make sure you are not conflating separate organizations.

Do you understand me? Keep it FACTUAL and more importantly, CIVIL.

Sincerely

so they could 'tidy up' the quid pro quo and hide it underneath a veneer of respectability.

If so, it could be a very lucrative retirement plan. Also, does Chelsea get paid by the Foundation?

Merely pointing out the Clinton Foundation was just a twinkle in Bill's eye when the Rich's "bequeathed" their gift. Just pointing out a fact, not making excuses at all.

Pointing out that the Foundation was started after the Rich pardon is what the post was about. No on is arguing over the fact that the Clintons are willing to be bought.

The very meaning of quid pro quo is something for something. Doing something out of friendship is something for nothing other than the good feeling you get. Pointing that out is not being pedantic. I'm sorry if I misunderstood both you and Ida.

We'll all just keep fighting the good fight.

I'll be your friend

(cash, small unmarked bills please)

Every great idea has to start somewhere, right?

From your link -- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Foundation

The Clinton Foundation (founded in 2001 as the William J. Clinton Foundation, and called during 2013–15 the Bill, Hillary & Chelsea Clinton Foundation) is a nonprofit corporation under section 501(c)(3) of the U.S. tax code. It was established by former President of the United States Bill Clinton with the stated mission to "strengthen the capacity of people throughout the world to meet the challenges of global interdependence."

Name changed to Wm J Clinton Foundation 2001.

In 1997 the organization to fund the "after he's a President library" was started. It got funded, and life moved on as Bill was not involved in it since he had a full time job as President.

Meanwhile, Marc Rich had issues, and in 1983 he was being charged with tons of stuff - he fled the country, and became a "most wanted". His daughter passed in 1996 and he didn't even come to the funeral.

His wife became very politically active. On the last day in office, Bill pardoned Marc Rich.

I thought your understanding-Hillary's-email-issues-for-non-techies-post was great, too!

Stinks of corruption.

Here's Bill Clinton's legal reasoning for the pardons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/18/opinion/18CLIN.html

The taxes still had to be paid.
Even then, Bill, not Hillary, pardoned.

And, a million dollars to a legacy item for people with as much money as Bill and Hillary from someone who has thousands times that much does not seem to be enough of a bribe to be worthy of anything extra to me.

Even so, at their present worth, about $130 million or so, that would still be 1/130th of their worth. Nothing to sneeze at. Or 4 speeches, do you know how much work it is to give 4 speeches?

Waiting.

No More Clintons EVER.

or are ignorant of it, in which case they should use google more and post less

The RW BS from the BS camp never ends, it seems.

is our candidate. I sure hope she isn't.

I have liberal friends who actually believe the stupid story about Vince Foster. She will not win in November for a multitude of reasons and this is one of them: Vince Foster.

It may seem ridiculous to you and me but that's politics in America.

would be a better candidate.

Just because an allegation is made by the Right doesn't mean it's nothing. In this case the facts are very clear and you haven't refuted any of them.

And just because the RW extremists - that we all supposedly are opposed to - have had the Clintons in their sights for a very long time, does not make their allegations any more valid.

You seem to believe that a repetition of a lie makes it less untrue. That's exactly what the RW wants you to think.

When Clinton pardoned Rich it had nothing to do with right wing crap. I hate Republicans.

"Marc Rich stood accused of evading more than $48 million in federal income taxes, making the case against him the biggest tax fraud case in American history, and if convicted faced a maximum sentence of more than 300 years in jail. Prior to the indictments, he fled to Switzerland, and for 17 years the U.S. government had been unable to get permission from the Swiss government to extradite him."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121848&page=1

We are being ripped off.

The Swiss could be forced to hand him over. They weren't. Nobody cares right?

I care.

I pay my taxes.

Why don't the Mark Rich's of the world have to?

And some around these parts have paraded a few times, disturbingly so.

And didn't you see that list going around of all the people around the Clintons who mysteriously ended up dead?! I know because My brother in-law e-mailed it to me.

That's who prosecuted Rich, using a law that had never been used for criminal prosecution of an individual before.

By the by there was a quid pro quo for the pardon, it was that Rich pay all the relevant fines and make restitution for his illegal acts.

Way to bring back a conservative talking point though.

If pardon was legit?

Pay to play.

EOM.

There were several. None of which found wrong doing.

Is it your claim that the republican controlled congress went easy on Clinton in this case?

Joint checking account.....

U.S. indictment and controversial pardon
2001 The Controversial Pardon of International Fugitive Marc Rich

In 1983 Rich and partner Pincus Green were indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage).[17][7] The charges would have led to a sentence of more than 300 years in prison had Rich been convicted on all counts.[17] The indictment was filed by then-U.S. Federal Prosecutor (and future mayor of New York City) Rudolph Giuliani. At the time it was the biggest tax evasion case in U.S. history.[18]

Hearing of the plans for the indictment, Rich fled[9] to Switzerland and, always insisting that he was not guilty, never returned to the U.S. to answer the charges.[Notes 1] Rich's companies eventually pled guilty to 35 counts of tax evasion and paid $90 million in fines,[7] although Rich himself remained on the Federal Bureau of Investigation's Ten Most-Wanted Fugitives List for many years,[20] narrowly evading capture in Britain, Germany, Finland, and Jamaica.[21] Fearing arrest, he did not even return to the United States to attend his daughter's funeral in 1996.[22]

On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton's strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision.[23] Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, "I don't think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful."[24] Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that "it wasn't worth the damage to my reputation."[9]

Clinton's critics alleged that Rich's pardon had been bought, as Denise Rich had given more than $1 million[25] to Clinton's political party (the Democratic Party), including more than $100,000 to the Senate campaign of the president's wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton, and $450,000 to the Clinton Library foundation during Clinton's time in office.[21] Clinton explained his decision by noting that similar cases were settled in civil, not criminal court.

Clinton also cited clemency pleas he had received from Israeli government officials, including then-Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Rich had made substantial donations to Israeli charitable foundations over the years, and many senior Israeli officials, such as Shimon Peres and Ehud Olmert, argued on his behalf behind the scenes.[26] Speculation about another rationale for Rich's pardon involved his alleged involvement with the Israeli intelligence community.[27][28] Rich reluctantly acknowledged in interviews with his biographer, Daniel Ammann, that he had assisted the Mossad, Israel’s intelligence service,[4][13] a claim that Ammann said was confirmed by a former Israeli intelligence officer.[12] According to Ammann, Rich had helped finance the Mossad's operations and had supplied Israel with strategic amounts of Iranian oil through a secret oil pipeline.[4] The aide to Rich who had persuaded Denise Rich to personally ask President Clinton to review Rich's pardon request was a former chief of the Mossad, Avner Azulay.[22][29] Another former Mossad chief, Shabtai Shavit, had also urged Clinton to pardon Rich,[30] whom he said had routinely allowed intelligence agents to use his offices around the world.[17]

Federal Prosecutor Mary Jo White was appointed to investigate Clinton's last-minute pardon of Rich.[31] She stepped down before the investigation was finished and was replaced by James Comey, who was critical of Clinton's pardons and of then-Deputy Attorney General Eric Holder's pardon recommendation.[32] Rich's lawyer, Jack Quinn, had previously been Clinton's White House Counsel and chief of staff to Clinton's Vice President, Al Gore, and had had a close relationship with Holder.[22] According to Quinn, Holder had advised that standard procedures be bypassed and the pardon petition be submitted directly to the White House.[33][Notes 2] Congressional investigations were also launched. Clinton's top advisors, Chief of Staff John Podesta, White House Counsel Beth Nolan, and advisor Bruce Lindsey, testified that nearly all of the White House staff advising the president on the pardon request had urged Clinton to not grant Rich a pardon.[29] Federal investigators ultimately found no evidence of criminal activity.[30]

As a condition of the pardon, it was made clear that Rich would drop all procedural defenses against any civil actions brought against him by the United States upon his return there. That condition was consistent with the position that his alleged wrongdoing warranted only civil penalties, not criminal punishment. Rich never returned to the United States.[9]

In a February 18, 2001 op-ed essay in The New York Times, Clinton (by then out of office) explained why he had pardoned Rich, noting that U.S. tax professors Bernard Wolfman of the Harvard Law School and Martin Ginsburg of Georgetown University Law Center had concluded that no crime had been committed, and that Rich's companies' tax-reporting position had been reasonable.[19] In the same essay, Clinton listed Lewis "Scooter" Libby as one of three "distinguished Republican lawyers" who supported a pardon for Rich. (Libby himself later received a presidential commutation for his involvement in the Plame affair.) During Congressional hearings after Rich's pardon, Libby, who had represented Rich from 1985 until the spring of 2000, denied that Rich had violated the tax laws but criticized him for trading with Iran at a time when that country was holding U.S. hostages.[35]