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There are no affirming Churches because true Christianity is not an affirming religion--end christopretensism (Original Post) Jose Flavio Sanchez 11 hrs ago OP
Interesting....our previous interaction led me to explore your viewpoint. walkingman 11 hrs ago #1
I would rather people who believe in LGBTQ+ call themselves atheist or pagan Jose Flavio Sanchez 10 hrs ago #2
Many LGBTQ+ people are not atheists or pagans at all, but are devout Christians. Ocelot II 10 hrs ago #3
LGBTQ+ are verbs not nouns Jose Flavio Sanchez 9 hrs ago #8
What right-wing sewer did this nonsense come from? Ocelot II 8 hrs ago #10
This has to do with the philosophy of love the sinner but hate the sin Jose Flavio Sanchez 7 hrs ago #12
Which sin from that list must we hate? Carpentry? Gaming? Ocelot II 4 hrs ago #14
Christianity should not be colonized by cultural trends Jose Flavio Sanchez 53 min ago #16
You can believe whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're right. Ocelot II 47 min ago #18
Hmmm. ThreeNoSeep 10 hrs ago #4
Indeed. Ocelot II 10 hrs ago #5
And this is why I subscribe to humanism, atheism, free thought, and ethical culture. no_hypocrisy 10 hrs ago #6
All religions can't be true Jose Flavio Sanchez 9 hrs ago #7
It's subjective and personally true. no_hypocrisy 9 hrs ago #9
How do we know which one is "true"? Who decides? Ocelot II 8 hrs ago #11
It's up to philosophers/theologians to debate and discuss Jose Flavio Sanchez 7 hrs ago #13
So as long as we're debating, which religion is the fully true one, and why? Ocelot II 4 hrs ago #15
This is not the forum for that conversation Jose Flavio Sanchez 49 min ago #17
Oh, you're in college. That explains a lot. Ocelot II 43 min ago #19

walkingman

(11,273 posts)
1. Interesting....our previous interaction led me to explore your viewpoint.
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 11:03 AM
11 hrs ago

As an atheist I am cynical of religion but open to enlightenment. ☮

2. I would rather people who believe in LGBTQ+ call themselves atheist or pagan
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 11:13 AM
10 hrs ago

Christianity is not like gender where it means whatever people want it to mean. Christianity is a well defined group of beliefs based on theistic philosophy and divine revelation.

Ocelot II

(131,742 posts)
3. Many LGBTQ+ people are not atheists or pagans at all, but are devout Christians.
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 11:16 AM
10 hrs ago

Who are you to decide who is or isn't a Christian? And whose "divine revelation" are we talking about? Please cite an instance where Jesus mentions homosexuality. Also, one doesn't "believe in" LGBTQ+ any more than one believes in being left-handed or having red hair. It's a characteristic, one of many possible characteristics of humanity, not a belief.

Ocelot II

(131,742 posts)
10. What right-wing sewer did this nonsense come from?
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 01:21 PM
8 hrs ago

A particular characteristic of a person doesn't mean that characteristic defines the person's entire being. If a person is a gay male musician, for example, is his "identity" that of a gay person or a man or a musician? Why can't he just be a human being with an assortment of characteristics and abilities like all other human beings? Likewise, a person who "identifies" as Christian is simply saying that he/she accepts the tenets of one of the established Christian denominations. That person could also be a gay male musician, all at the same time. I am personally acquainted with a number of gay male Christian musicians and not one of them reduces any of those aspects to an identity.

Ocelot II

(131,742 posts)
14. Which sin from that list must we hate? Carpentry? Gaming?
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 05:19 PM
4 hrs ago

Or only same-sex attraction, which Jesus never mentioned? If that's it, then you are advocating for a "religion" that preaches bigotry with no scriptural basis.

16. Christianity should not be colonized by cultural trends
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 09:15 PM
53 min ago

LGBTQ+ is not, never has been and never will be part of Christian culture. We believe God made sexuality ordered for marriage because a man and a woman and no possibility for change of sex/gender. Please respect our beliefs.

Christianity is not an open tent. Colonizing Christianity by mainstream secular culture delegitimizes it as a distinct sovereign religion and Philosophical worldview.

Ocelot II

(131,742 posts)
18. You can believe whatever you want. It doesn't mean you're right.
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 09:20 PM
47 min ago

I would ask that you also respect the beliefs of the millions of other Christians who don't agree with you; it's not a one-way street. I would also ask again that you specifically identify where Jesus is quoted as having said anything about homosexuality (and I'm not talking about the Old Testament or Paul). In any event I don't think this is the right forum for you, as progressive Christians do not accept what you believe about this issue.

no_hypocrisy

(55,671 posts)
6. And this is why I subscribe to humanism, atheism, free thought, and ethical culture.
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 12:00 PM
10 hrs ago

It's self-sustaining, not affirming.

It's accepting of all faiths with the exception of those who use their faith to discriminate and practice bigotry against others.

I can be in the pews of a church, singing a hymn and I don't feel pressured to convert or to question my beliefs.

I support the faith of others. My Truth isn't superior to their Truth(s).

no_hypocrisy

(55,671 posts)
9. It's subjective and personally true.
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 12:24 PM
9 hrs ago

As long as the others don't impede my "truth", it's all good.

Ocelot II

(131,742 posts)
11. How do we know which one is "true"? Who decides?
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 01:22 PM
8 hrs ago

The Spanish Inquisition decided by torturing and killing people. Wars have been fought over what the "true" religion is. Is that what we want?

13. It's up to philosophers/theologians to debate and discuss
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 02:34 PM
7 hrs ago

I have ideas but my point here is that we should be allowed to have this conversation instead of defaulting to "respect all religions" because only one religion can be true. All religions can contain some truth but they're not all fully true.

Ocelot II

(131,742 posts)
15. So as long as we're debating, which religion is the fully true one, and why?
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 05:22 PM
4 hrs ago

If the true religion is Christianity, which of its many versions is also the true and correct one? If you really believe that there is only one true religion, don't pass that opinion off to philosophers and theologians, who don't agree either. What do YOU think?

17. This is not the forum for that conversation
Sat Jun 20, 2026, 09:19 PM
49 min ago

Spoiler, it is not a denomination. Christianity is a theological/philosophical worldview.

Look up the Neologism Deusmediatorunitionist for a hint.

I will be out with a new edition of my book when I have time to update it. I'm too busy in college so I haven't had a chance.

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