Religion

Cartoonist

(7,558 posts) Mon Jul 26, 2021, 10:35 AM Jul 2021

Lennon, the totalitarian.

https://nypost.com/2021/07/25/imagine-blared-at-the-olympics-is-a-totalitarians-anthem/

The Olympics opening ceremonies in Tokyo featured one of the worst pop songs of all time: Yes, I’m speaking of John Lennon’s “Imagine,” sung by a large children’s choir and a bevy of celebrities.

As a fan of the Beatles and Lennon especially, it pains me to say this, but it’s true: While its melody and arrangement are indeed beautiful, the lyrics are an invitation to moral and political chaos.

Consider the opening verse: “Imagine there’s no heaven / It’s easy if you try / No hell below us, above us only sky / Imagine all the people livin’ for today.”

I frankly can’t imagine anything worse. To say that there is no heaven or hell is to say that there is no absolute criterion of good and evil — no way of meaningfully determining the difference between right and wrong, no standard outside of the subjectivities of each moral actor by which to say any one agent is better than any other.
__

Of course, it was written by

Robert Barron is the auxiliary bishop of Los Angeles.

Twitter: @BishopBarron

18 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Lennon, the totalitarian. (Original Post) Cartoonist Jul 2021 OP

Lennon doesn't say there is no heaven or hell, he merely asks us to imagine such a state . . . Journeyman Jul 2021 #1

What a crock SCantiGOP Jul 2021 #2

It's an attempt to strip the labels off... MiHale Jul 2021 #3

The Bishop overestimates the weight all us sinners give outside standards. Thomas Hurt Jul 2021 #4

All Hail Marx and Lennon tirebiter Jul 2021 #5

Hey Bish edhopper Jul 2021 #6

"Imagine all the people livin' for today." guillaumeb Jul 2021 #7

religion has been killing people for centuries. Sometimes over minor details. demigoddess Jul 2021 #8

God is the ultimate arbiter of what is good and evil Major Nikon Jul 2021 #9

One only has to study the history of the Catholic Church walkingman Jul 2021 #10

"Heaven is real!" Act_of_Reparation Aug 2021 #11

What I notice in this forum autumnmaunabliss Aug 2021 #12

Art is a good hobby. uppityperson Aug 2021 #13

It certainly is. TexasTowelie Aug 2021 #15

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2021 #16

So you think you can tell, heaven from hell? old as dirt Dec 2021 #18

The bishop doesn't seem all that knowledgeable about the teachings of his own religion Fortinbras Armstrong Aug 2021 #14

This is a weird thread. old as dirt Dec 2021 #17

Journeyman

(15,176 posts)

1. Lennon doesn't say there is no heaven or hell, he merely asks us to imagine such a state . . .

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 10:38 AM

Jul 2021

SCantiGOP

(14,302 posts)

2. What a crock

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 11:07 AM

Jul 2021

1- give me some hint of proof that there is a heaven above us, bishop;
2- give me a couple of reasons of how that belief is good for humanity, when most wars - both historical and current - have at least some relationship to religious belief.

I think the bishop is either scared to have to develop and live his own moral code, or he’s afraid Lennon’s philosophy threatens his job security.

From what I know of the statements attributed to Jesus in the New Testament, I think he would likely approve of the lyrics.

MiHale

(10,891 posts)

3. It's an attempt to strip the labels off...

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 11:09 AM

Jul 2021

accept life for what it is and enjoy the day. No fears.

Thomas Hurt

(13,929 posts)

4. The Bishop overestimates the weight all us sinners give outside standards.

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 11:23 AM

Jul 2021

If they worked he would be out of work.

tirebiter

(2,593 posts)

5. All Hail Marx and Lennon

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 11:38 AM

Jul 2021

edhopper

(35,041 posts)

6. Hey Bish

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 11:40 AM

Jul 2021

everything you believe is a lie and your Church is a ring of child rapists.

Tell me how heaven and hell has stopped the Catholic Church from all the evil it has done.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)

7. "Imagine all the people livin' for today."

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 01:48 PM

Jul 2021

Meaning what exactly? No thought for tomorrow? No thought for others?

It is a song, and the demands of rhyme and meter are present.

demigoddess

(6,675 posts)

8. religion has been killing people for centuries. Sometimes over minor details.

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 02:18 PM

Jul 2021

Imagining no heaven or hell might make people want a better life on earth, while they live. I do not believe in hell. I do believe in an afterlife because I have been visited by people who have passed.

Major Nikon

(36,911 posts)

9. God is the ultimate arbiter of what is good and evil

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Jul 26, 2021, 03:25 PM

Jul 2021

But since he is evidently not around to tell us, thankfully we have the holy Roman Catholic Church to tell us those things by His proxy so long as we pledge complete subservience to them. Nothing totalitarian about that.

So how exactly do we know which side god is on?

walkingman

(8,546 posts)

10. One only has to study the history of the Catholic Church

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Tue Jul 27, 2021, 11:56 PM

Jul 2021

to understand the hypocrisy that they represent. A pretty scary group.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)

11. "Heaven is real!"

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Mon Aug 9, 2021, 08:49 AM

Aug 2021

...says man whose livelihood depends on people thinking heaven is real.

autumnmaunabliss

(10 posts)

12. What I notice in this forum

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 07:50 AM

Aug 2021

is a left-brained mentality that is too literal. Art is something in which one must transcend their intellect and tune in on an intuitive level. So that means understanding that the concepts of Heaven and Hell in and of themselves creates chaos! People fearing one fate and clinging to the other do things right here on the Earth plane that are very upsetting to life as we know it. I love the line: "Above us only sky."

uppityperson

(115,880 posts)

13. Art is a good hobby.

Reply to autumnmaunabliss (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 11:39 AM

Aug 2021

TexasTowelie

(117,533 posts)

15. It certainly is.

Reply to uppityperson (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 07:59 PM

Aug 2021

Response to uppityperson (Reply #13)

Name removed Message auto-removed

old as dirt

(1,972 posts)

18. So you think you can tell, heaven from hell?

Reply to autumnmaunabliss (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 21, 2021, 06:11 AM

Dec 2021

What I notice in this forum is a left-brained mentality that is too literal. Art is something in which one must transcend their intellect and tune in on an intuitive level. So that means understanding that the concepts of Heaven and Hell in and of themselves creates chaos!

Fortinbras Armstrong

(4,473 posts)

14. The bishop doesn't seem all that knowledgeable about the teachings of his own religion

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Fri Aug 27, 2021, 02:34 PM

Aug 2021

The whole "sinners in the hands of an angry God" stuff is Calvinism, not Catholicism. The authentic teaching is that one does good out of love for God and other people, not out of fear of Hell.

old as dirt

(1,972 posts)

17. This is a weird thread.

Reply to Cartoonist (Original post)

Tue Dec 21, 2021, 05:04 AM

Dec 2021

Happiness is a warm gun.

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