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guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 01:39 PM Jul 2019

American Muslim Women Are Fighting For The Freedom To Swim

From the article:

It was the summer of 2017 when Ruhee Kapadia, a Muslim mother from Long Island, New York, took her 13-year-old daughter to their local pool. School was out, and her daughter was excited to finally enjoy the long-awaited summer break in the water.
But staff at the Echo Park Pool said Kapadia’s daughter wasn’t allowed to swim, citing her clothing. Her daughter was wearing a bathing suit layered with leggings and a T-shirt, which staff said wasn’t appropriate swimwear. When the 39-year-old mother tried to reason with the pool staff, they told her it was out of their hands and to take up her concerns with local West Hempstead officials.


To read more:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/muslim-women-burkini-pool_n_5d279c95e4b0bd7d1e199769
62 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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American Muslim Women Are Fighting For The Freedom To Swim (Original Post) guillaumeb Jul 2019 OP
They _have_ the freedom to swim. Ron Obvious Jul 2019 #1
The restrictions are targeted against Muslim women. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #3
Nonsense. These rules are in effect in every pool I've ever swum in for decades Ron Obvious Jul 2019 #5
You have the right to that opinion. eom guillaumeb Jul 2019 #7
I've seen people kicked out of this kind of facility. Igel Jul 2019 #14
Many things can interfere with filtration systems. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #18
The wrong conclusion, it would seem. Act_of_Reparation Jul 2019 #43
In the US? AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #47
Gotta make it about religious persecution though. trotsky Jul 2019 #10
Bingo n/t customerserviceguy Jul 2019 #11
Given that these rules specifically target religious dress, guillaumeb Jul 2019 #12
Except they're not edhopper Jul 2019 #16
You gave your opinion. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #20
It clearly states they were wearing t-shirts. edhopper Jul 2019 #22
T shirts are off limits for all JenniferJuniper Jul 2019 #26
It wasn't a burkini AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #27
The article doesn't say they were banned from wearing that. AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #46
They don't. That is just your (erroneous) opinion. trotsky Jul 2019 #38
The rules against wearing street clothes in pools Mariana Jul 2019 #50
the clothing restrictions are unnecessary and stupid. demigoddess Jul 2019 #9
The same argument could be made about top coverings for wqmen. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #13
has been made in the past but society was not able to face the prospect. demigoddess Jul 2019 #37
True. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #42
The clothing rules are very common. I am guessing she'll AJT Jul 2019 #2
Yes, they are unfortunately quite common. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #4
The more you use that word, the less meaning and power it will have. Ron Obvious Jul 2019 #6
What is nonsensical is denying the obvious. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #8
It's a no Street Clothes rule edhopper Jul 2019 #17
Burkinis are designed to be swim wear. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #19
Your article says it wasn't a burkini.. AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #28
The article is not limited to that one incident. eom guillaumeb Jul 2019 #30
Perhaps in the Huffpo article you missed the sign picture... AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #33
If you read the entire article, guillaumeb Jul 2019 #34
I read the entire article....your C&P adresses a specific event..with a teeshirt AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #36
He doesn't care. trotsky Jul 2019 #39
Not my 1st dealings w/him-her.... AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #40
"no such bans exist in the United States" AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #45
He can't even help it. trotsky Jul 2019 #53
Your example has nothing to do with some French cities banning burkini's. Actually, Paris bans all emmaverybo Jul 2019 #51
You demonstrate the ability to read, yet you don't seem to realize she wasn't wearing a burkini. AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #55
Ruhee Kapadia should stop abusing her daughter and let her live a normal life. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #15
Perhaps you should stop imposing your own values. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #21
I'm not imposing anything. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #23
How do you feel about female mutilation edhopper Jul 2019 #24
My suggestion is to start another post. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #25
OMG! edhopper Jul 2019 #29
No, I will not participate in an unrelated question. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #31
So discussions of the religious reasons behind edhopper Jul 2019 #41
The silence(avoidance) is deafening. AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #35
This message was self-deleted by its author mr_liberal Jul 2019 #32
They didn't want her to drown. AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #44
A very convincing argument. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author AncientGeezer Jul 2019 #49
The religion I follow, under the Lord Triton, requires I enter earth's holy waters totally nude ... mr_lebowski Jul 2019 #52
And you should follow that religion. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #54
This is Great! Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #56
Once again, a very few posters insist on arguing with a straw opponent. guillaumeb Jul 2019 #57
Straw has more substance. Voltaire2 Jul 2019 #59
Content and substance are irrelevant Major Nikon Jul 2019 #58
Consistent indeed. trotsky Jul 2019 #60
It has already been noted: Act_of_Reparation Jul 2019 #61
Still not going to walk this trash, false-correlation travesty of journalism article back, huh? AtheistCrusader Jul 2019 #62
 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
1. They _have_ the freedom to swim.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 01:47 PM
Jul 2019

They just want an exemption to the clothing restrictions that apply to everyone equally.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
3. The restrictions are targeted against Muslim women.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 01:52 PM
Jul 2019

And these types of restrictions are generally seen as such by the courts.

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
5. Nonsense. These rules are in effect in every pool I've ever swum in for decades
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 02:00 PM
Jul 2019

There's nothing about them to single out Muslims or to target them for discrimination.

Igel

(36,233 posts)
14. I've seen people kicked out of this kind of facility.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 05:13 PM
Jul 2019

For wearing shorts or t-shirts. These were non-immigrant, not obviously Muslim people, both adults and children, and mostly sporting all the secondary sex characteristics of maleness (or, if pre-pubescent, showing traditional male-child behavior or clothing).

I've had staff, when I was wearing a t-shirt and cutoffs (because I didn't have a bathing suit) warn me when I was just sitting there, legs dangling in the water, warn me "no bathing suit, no swimming." And they didn't mean swimming in the buff, either. I'm neither immigrant nor Muslim. Nor female.

The claim has been that bathing suits don't produce lint or perhaps just not as much. Lint, they said (in a few different places) clogs their filtration system. Since it was a few different, unconnected places, I figure either it's a common myth or just possibly the truth and accurate.

So there's anecdotal evidence for the possibility that the other opinion is right.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
18. Many things can interfere with filtration systems.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 06:05 PM
Jul 2019

And the same type of rules are also found at public beaches and lakes. All of this anecdotal evidence leads to one conclusion, in my view.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
10. Gotta make it about religious persecution though.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 02:40 PM
Jul 2019

Just don't ask why many Muslim women feel obligated to cover themselves in public at all times.

And DEFINITELY don't bring up the many Muslim women who claim that the dress rules are ridiculous and sexist to begin with and we shouldn't be deferring to the fundamentalist religious leaders who enforce them.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
12. Given that these rules specifically target religious dress,
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 04:45 PM
Jul 2019

yes, one might be justified in suspecting that this is designed to target religions.

edhopper

(35,056 posts)
16. Except they're not
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 05:47 PM
Jul 2019

they target street clothes. I have been asked to leave pools when wearing a T-Shirt.
I now own a proper swim shirt.

But you love to exchange opinions for facts.

edhopper

(35,056 posts)
22. It clearly states they were wearing t-shirts.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 06:17 PM
Jul 2019

from your article:

Her daughter was wearing a bathing suit layered with leggings and a T-shirt,

not my opinion.

JenniferJuniper

(4,548 posts)
26. T shirts are off limits for all
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 06:42 PM
Jul 2019

at most public pools. They say the fibers clog the filters.

Not everything is persecution.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
46. The article doesn't say they were banned from wearing that.
Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:15 AM
Jul 2019

You really should read the article you posted.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
38. They don't. That is just your (erroneous) opinion.
Thu Jul 18, 2019, 07:02 AM
Jul 2019

Keep trying to force this to fit your agenda, though.

The rest of us will read the entire article and understand your desperate spin for what it is.

Mariana

(15,196 posts)
50. The rules against wearing street clothes in pools
Sun Jul 21, 2019, 11:03 PM
Jul 2019

have been around as long as I can remember. Gil wants to believe religious people are being persecuted, though, so that explains his novel interpretation.

AJT

(5,240 posts)
2. The clothing rules are very common. I am guessing she'll
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 01:48 PM
Jul 2019

be able to have her daughter swim after she goes through the proper channels.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
4. Yes, they are unfortunately quite common.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 01:53 PM
Jul 2019

Islamophobia is also, unfortunately, quite common even in liberal democracies.

 

Ron Obvious

(6,261 posts)
6. The more you use that word, the less meaning and power it will have.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 02:01 PM
Jul 2019

It's a nonsense word anyway, but particularly in cases like this.

edhopper

(35,056 posts)
17. It's a no Street Clothes rule
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 05:50 PM
Jul 2019

as has been explained to you. Why do you refuse to accept facts?

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
28. Your article says it wasn't a burkini..
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 06:54 PM
Jul 2019

"..wearing a bathing suit layered with leggings and a T-shirt,..."

 

AncientGeezer

(2,146 posts)
33. Perhaps in the Huffpo article you missed the sign picture...
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 08:25 PM
Jul 2019

That says burkinis...but not tee shirts which was the attire worn in your OP
?cache=yizde3vmob&ops=scalefit_720_noupscale

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
34. If you read the entire article,
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 08:27 PM
Jul 2019

you read this:

Over the last decade, Muslim women across the globe have been subject to an increasing amount of harassment when swimming while wearing less-than-revealing swim attire. Just last week in France, where the burkini is banned in several cities, Muslim women staged a protest defying the prohibitions. Although no such bans exist in the United States, Muslim women across the country say they are criticized or denied admittance to their local pools because of their modest swimwear.


And that is the point of the entire article.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
53. He can't even help it.
Mon Jul 22, 2019, 07:08 AM
Jul 2019

He posts an exact quote that contradicts his spin.

Another trainwreck for Engineer Gil.

emmaverybo

(8,147 posts)
51. Your example has nothing to do with some French cities banning burkini's. Actually, Paris bans all
Sun Jul 21, 2019, 11:20 PM
Jul 2019

conspicuous religious symbols worn in public schools as they proclaim themselves a secular society. They also criminalize anti-Semitic speech. So? What’s your point? We ban toplessness at most beaches. The French do not.

You are trying to tie everything in with your agenda without recognizing nuance. But your example is not apt in any case as what the daughter was wearing was not a burkini and violated a safety and health code having nothing to do with religion.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
55. You demonstrate the ability to read, yet you don't seem to realize she wasn't wearing a burkini.
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 02:34 PM
Jul 2019

Re-read your article very carefully. She was wearing a swimsuit with a t-shirt and leggings. This is not a burkini. This is a swimsuit with street clothes. Street clothes are not allowed.

Why do you not seem to be able to grasp this?

Muslim women are not 'fighting for the right to swim' in the United States. The article is highly deceptive.

edhopper

(35,056 posts)
24. How do you feel about female mutilation
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 06:20 PM
Jul 2019

or beating women who are out without a male relative.

You okay with those values too?

edhopper

(35,056 posts)
29. OMG!
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 06:56 PM
Jul 2019

You can't even condemn those acts.

This is really sad.

It's like a Republican squirming to not call Trump a racist.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
31. No, I will not participate in an unrelated question.
Wed Jul 17, 2019, 07:53 PM
Jul 2019

One which has nothing to do with the actual post.

edhopper

(35,056 posts)
41. So discussions of the religious reasons behind
Thu Jul 18, 2019, 09:33 AM
Jul 2019

why they must cover their whole body are not allowed either.
Only your agenda is allowed.

Got it, no discussion, only agreement with your opinion.

Next.

Response to guillaumeb (Original post)

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
44. They didn't want her to drown.
Fri Jul 19, 2019, 10:08 AM
Jul 2019

There's plenty of full-body-covering modesty ACTUAL SWIMWEAR without waterlogging your kid with a cotton T-Shirt and leggings. There was a valid objection, life-safety-wise IN THAT CASE as described.

There should not have been a policy against it, however, and the top laws in the nation protect an individual's right to expression of their religion, including modesty, so the headline is a bit of an exaggeration. There is no 'fight' in probably 99% of the country, and anywhere it IS a fight, call the ACLU and lodge a lawsuit and you're guaranteed a win.

Response to guillaumeb (Reply #48)

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
52. The religion I follow, under the Lord Triton, requires I enter earth's holy waters totally nude ...
Mon Jul 22, 2019, 03:19 AM
Jul 2019

And that within 5 minutes, all male followers must float on their back, facing the sky, and proceed to flog the dolphin, to completion, to celebrate the Life-Giving Rays of the Holy Sky Sphere!

No, really. It's part of my sky-daddy's Commandments. He Told Me So!

And I demand that everyone else respect my Religion, and allow me to publicly engage in my required rituals, otherwise I'm being horribly repressed by The Evil Ones ... and those who do so shall all be banished to an eternity in cold, murky Atlantis!

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
54. And you should follow that religion.
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 01:07 PM
Jul 2019

Do you also worship in this manner in the colder months?

Voltaire2

(14,879 posts)
56. This is Great!
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 04:19 PM
Jul 2019

Once again the OP failed to either read or comprehend the article he posted. How many times is this now? At least the op is consistent.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
57. Once again, a very few posters insist on arguing with a straw opponent.
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 08:13 PM
Jul 2019

And that is consistent in this Group for that very small number of posters.

Major Nikon

(36,911 posts)
58. Content and substance are irrelevant
Wed Jul 24, 2019, 09:14 PM
Jul 2019

What really matters is posting “counterpoint” to news about priests raping children.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
61. It has already been noted:
Thu Jul 25, 2019, 08:39 AM
Jul 2019

Parks & Rec typically prohibits street clothes, like leggings, from use in public pools because the materials used in their manufacture are too absorbent or break down in pool water, and thus pose a risk to public property, others, and the would-be swimmers themselves. These rules and regulations have secular purpose, do not have the primary effect of advancing or inhibiting religion, and do not constitute excessive governmental entanglement with religion.

You should probably address that.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
62. Still not going to walk this trash, false-correlation travesty of journalism article back, huh?
Fri Jul 26, 2019, 12:26 PM
Jul 2019

If I'd posted something this bad, I'd have apologized long ago.

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