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guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:17 AM Mar 2019

Openly Gay, Openly Christian Buttigieg Challenges the Religious Right

From the article:


As someone whose identity includes serious Christianity and serious progressive political stances, I’ve always been wary of trying to counter the Christian right with some sort of Christian left, in a Bible-quotation–loaded competition to claim God for a party or ideology...

Still, it’s important now and then to challenge the conservative assertion — often shared in ignorance by secular media — that religiosity, and particularly Christian religiosity, dictates reactionary positions on culture and politics. So I found it interesting and provocative that 2020 presidential candidate Cory Booker goes out of his way to talk about his own religious faith....

As E.J. Dionne observes, there is another 2020 Democratic presidential candidate who’s conspicuously talking about his faith, the fast-rising dark horse Pete Buttigieg, mayor of South Bend, Indiana....



To read more:

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/openly-gay-christian-buttigieg-challenges-religious-right.html

The author states that the secular media takes this position out of ignorance. I think that it is deliberate. The US media is predominantly conservative, predominantly right wing friendly.
20 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Openly Gay, Openly Christian Buttigieg Challenges the Religious Right (Original Post) guillaumeb Mar 2019 OP
And yet, New York Magazine is part of that media. MineralMan Mar 2019 #1
I said: guillaumeb Mar 2019 #3
As for your statement as to what the author of that article says, MineralMan Mar 2019 #2
Another misreading. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #4
The highlighting is mine, of course, to point out the differences MineralMan Mar 2019 #5
Look at reply #3 guillaumeb Mar 2019 #8
All I need do is look at the OP. MineralMan Mar 2019 #11
Yes, it is. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #12
What the actual fuck? trotsky Mar 2019 #6
What I said: guillaumeb Mar 2019 #7
Another change in the intent of the original author. MineralMan Mar 2019 #9
Define commentary. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #10
No one's perfect Lordquinton Mar 2019 #13
That would make a good post. eom guillaumeb Mar 2019 #14
What bothers me is you highlighting it Lordquinton Mar 2019 #15
What I said: guillaumeb Mar 2019 #16
You seem to be at odds with the author Lordquinton Mar 2019 #17
No, I am disagreeing with the author's view that it is accidental. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #18
So the secular media is running a conspiracy against Christians? Lordquinton Mar 2019 #19
The conservative media is promoting a view. guillaumeb Mar 2019 #20

MineralMan

(148,008 posts)
1. And yet, New York Magazine is part of that media.
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:37 AM
Mar 2019

Some of the secular media is very conservative regarding LGBTQ issues, but much of it is either neutral or positive on those topics. There is no general "media" one can talk about in this country, especially on specific issues. The media, also, in large part, is neutral on religious issues, out of concern for its audience, which includes people from all religious and non-religious positions.

It is a mistake to lump all media into one group - a grievous mistake. It implies that most media is similar to Fox News, which has a clear and obvious bias on both LGBTQ and religious issues. That is not the case, on those issues, at least.

Guess which television news media has the highest numbers of viewers? It is ABC, CBS and NBC broadcast news, by a very, very large margin. You will not find open bias for anti-LGBTQ issues nor for right-wing Christianity on any of those three. They simply do not have those biases, generally, but take a neutral to positive view of LGBTQ issues and mainstream religion.

The author is mistaken, if he or she lumps all media together. That is simply not correct.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
3. I said:
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:50 AM
Mar 2019
The US media is predominantly conservative, predominantly right wing friendly.


Not the author. I reading of the article would show that.

And the word predominantly is not the same as the word all.

MineralMan

(148,008 posts)
2. As for your statement as to what the author of that article says,
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:43 AM
Mar 2019

you are incorrect there, too. You quoted the salient paragraph, and it does not say simply that the secular media TAKES that position. Instead it says that that position "is OFTEN SHARED in ignorance by the secular media." In leaving out those qualifying modifiers and changing the verb used in the article, you changed the statement you quoted in your very excerpt to suit your own biases.

Why try to change what the author has written by restating it incorrectly? You cannot make the author say what the author did not say, by reframing it, Why change the author's words? That you do it while quoting those very words is awkward for you, I think.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
4. Another misreading.
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:51 AM
Mar 2019

The author's words are highlighted. Mine are not.

Careful reading is essential.

MineralMan

(148,008 posts)
5. The highlighting is mine, of course, to point out the differences
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:53 AM
Mar 2019

between what the author said and what you changed it to. Why did you change the authors verb and leave out the qualifier? There is an an enormous difference between "taking" a position and "often sharing" that position.

You also used highlighting that was not used in the article to emphasize something. It's a common enough thing to do in posts. i just followed your example, you see.

It's right there in your post, Monsieur B.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
12. Yes, it is.
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 12:13 PM
Mar 2019

But you continue to mistakenly insist that my commentary is something else.

And, you avoided the point of the actual article, which challenges the prevailing view of what Christians are.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
6. What the actual fuck?
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 11:58 AM
Mar 2019

You whine about blasphemy, you want clergy exempted from laws, and now you rant about the "secular media."

Connecting those dots draws a very scary picture.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
7. What I said:
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 12:02 PM
Mar 2019
The author states that the secular media takes this position out of ignorance. I think that it is deliberate. The US media is predominantly conservative, predominantly right wing friendly.


In this piece, the intent is to refute what the media says.

And I said US media, not secular media.

MineralMan

(148,008 posts)
9. Another change in the intent of the original author.
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 12:05 PM
Mar 2019

You are trying to make the article say what you want it to say, rather than what it said. The author of the article is clearly better with the English language than you are, it seems. The author says precisely what is meant, leaving it for you to reframe in your own materials.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
10. Define commentary.
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 12:09 PM
Mar 2019

Apply that definition to my commentary on the piece.

You are trying to do something, but so far you are demonstrating that you misread the post.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
13. No one's perfect
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 03:50 PM
Mar 2019

And the callout of secular media is disturbing. What does non-secular media have to say about the subject?

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
14. That would make a good post. eom
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 03:58 PM
Mar 2019

But why does the term secular media bother you?

The obvious explanation to me is that the author wished to distinguish between the religious based media sources and non-religious sources.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
15. What bothers me is you highlighting it
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 04:02 PM
Mar 2019

then claiming it has nothing to do with this thread and attacking anyone who asks you about it.

It apparently bothers the article author, otherwise he wouldn't have said it, why did you choose it, and specifically highlight it?

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
16. What I said:
Wed Mar 27, 2019, 04:07 PM
Mar 2019
The author states that the secular media takes this position out of ignorance. I think that it is deliberate.
The US media is predominantly conservative, predominantly right wing friendly.


The word secular is not key, it is the author's idea that the media takes the position out of ignorance, My view is that the conservative, corporate US media deliberately promotes right wing viewpoints.

A point that I have maned many times.

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
18. No, I am disagreeing with the author's view that it is accidental.
Thu Mar 28, 2019, 11:07 AM
Mar 2019

My view is that the media deliberately promotes this view.

Lordquinton

(7,886 posts)
19. So the secular media is running a conspiracy against Christians?
Thu Mar 28, 2019, 12:29 PM
Mar 2019

That's way further than I thought this would go...

guillaumeb

(42,649 posts)
20. The conservative media is promoting a view.
Thu Mar 28, 2019, 12:37 PM
Mar 2019

My term is conservative, not secular.

Thus my disagreement with the author as to intent.

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