How will we know the abuse was confessed? The sinner won't talk, and if the priest doesn't, only god will know and he hasn't testified for centuries.

If they tell the police they told a priest and the priest didn't tell the cops, now they know the priest has committed a crime.

It's one more tool prosecutors will have to bust the RCC's culture of child rape. It's not as if they are going to do it.

Last edited Thu Feb 21, 2019, 02:13 PM - Edit history (1)

everyone else. No passes on the basis of religion. We are a secular country. Religious organizations are fully able to worship as they please, but they should not be free from the requirements of any laws. Any laws. Period. No clergy exemptions from their responsibilities as citizens.

and they rarely do, what will be the result?

I understand that you are "unsure" whether children should be protected from abuse by requiring priests to report. But I cannot understand your logic.

Which is to say no logic at all. It's really just about providing more cover for the RCC's culture of child rape.

The more states and countries that enact these mandatory reporting laws, the less the RCC will be able to sweep under the rug and the more they will be pressured to change their internal policies and positively affect their culture of child rape. Some are "unsure" as to whether the status quo is the preferred option.

* Catholic person rapes a child
* Catholic person wants to be a "good Catholic" and so goes and confesses the sin, seeking absolution. They KNOW the priest can't alert the authorities, but at least they can get that pesky sin off their conscience.
* Catholic person is free to rape again with zero consequences. (If they do, just repeat from the beginning.)

What gil is saying is that if priests can report (and Catholic child rapists know this), then it is likely that fewer Catholic child rapists will confess their sin in the first place.

So in the original situation, child rape occurs and NOTHING happens. Ever.

If priests are required to report what they are told in confessional, SOME rapists might be stopped. SOME children might be spared. But even if those numbers end up both being zero, we're certainly not any worse off than when we started. AND the Catholic child rapist will died unabsolved and burn in Catholic hell, meaning they must not have cared about the confessional crap to begin with.

As I said, I really don't understand the logic. Which means you're right - this is cover for the culture of rape, and it's also about religious privilege.

It’s just carrying water for the RCC’s “logic”, which is obviously self-serving.

Cartoonist is making a point but you're missing it.

And we are not missing it.

OK, g. You run along now. LOL.

the victim does not report it.

And, as Cartoonist also said:

Seat belts save lives. Many times they don't. Therefore we shouldn't wear seat belts?

If a kid tells a teacher he's been abused, she has to report it. Since many kids don't say anything, and the abuser won't confess, and the teacher won't talk, how will we know the kid has been abused? Umm maybe because the kid DID tell a teacher this time, and the teacher will obey the law?

Is this a solution for that problem? No, it is a reporting requirement that depends on the good faith of the offender to confess.

I support reporting requirements, but they depend, as I said, on either victims or offenders reporting abuse.

Any reasonable suspicion must be reported. Inadvertent slips of the tongue. Stories that don't add up. Unexplained bruises or changes in behavior. Credible third party reports. Walking in on another priest with a half naked child. Children who innocently say "Father X said Jesus got naked with the disciples and we should do it too."

We made the decision a long time ago that all such things must be reported by teachers, doctors etc. However they got the information. That's not a question any more.

Why should priests get an exemption? That's a question you don't seem able to answer.

But often, victims do not report abuse. And criminals rarely report that they have committed crimes.

So how do we change that behavior on the part of victims and criminals?

Because most of the examples I provided did not require a confession or a victim report.

Australian study find tha more substantiated cases of abuse got to CPS after new mandatory reporting law passed.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0145213416300655

Which is why he chooses the path of obsfucation. He’s going to break his back carrying the RCC’s water.

they just dump it on the ground.

It's not hard to understand.

So what does this show?

But a single counterexample, i. e. actual experience, is enough to show "they don't confess" is a false meme, and therefore not an argument against mandatory reporting.

Criminals rarely confess prior to being caught. And given that sexual predation is illegal in every state, it still continues.

You know, the same ones who engage in massive international conspiracies of child rape and cover up.

Very telling that.

You keep telling us this won't stop all child rapes and you keep obsessing over how effective you think this is.

So what I'd like to know is how many child rapes must we allow before the RCC must conform to the same laws which put a stop to other child rapists who aren't exempt from these laws like the RCC? Since you've put so much thought into this, surely you must have some number in your head.

Zero cases of abuse.

What does history show us? Quite the opposite.

Your rejection of a solution that holds the RCC accountable for decades of a culture of child rape is also quite predictable.

So what do you see as a non-answer?

But I also pointed out that this is a universal problem, not confined to any one institution.

Instead you posed a different question and answered that instead. Try again. This time answer the question that was asked, not the one you asked of yourself.

And yeah, I get you want to obfuscate, but we are talking about this institution, so try to "focus".

Are you once again just consulting the RCC who does have experience concealing child rape? Because you’ve already carried that water and I don’t really need to hear it again.

Meanwhile the “experience” of prosecutors and child advocacy groups tells us these laws are necessary for the welfare of children rather than the welfare of the RCC which you appear to have a greater concern for.

And when they tell certain people those people have a legal obligation to tell the authorities. As desperate as you are to obsfucate, that’s what this is about.

Focus

And how many are abused who never tell?

"30 percent of incest victims reveal their situations,"

We need to do everything we can to encourage them to come forward, make sure they are heard, and get them to a safe place. We can't help the ones we don't know about, but it seems strange not to do anything about those that do.

some percentage of victims confess their "sin" to their confessor. That, too, is never reported, under the current system. Many child victims of sexual abuse feel intense guilt, blaming what happened on themselves. This is often taught to them by their abuser. Some confess to another priest, who is bound not to reveal what he has learned.

Your point is not made.

Mandated reporters do not have to have actual proof of abuse. If they suspect abuse, they are supposed to report it and let the authorities investigate. I was once involved in such a situation. A 10-year-old girl who was a regular at a library where I volunteered exhibited some of the behaviors typical of sexual abuse victims. I reported what I had observed to the head librarian, who was a mandatory reporter. An investigation took place and the girl's abuser, her stepfather, was prosecuted. At the time, I was not considered a mandatory reporter, as a mere volunteer, but I often interacted with the children who used the library.

Anytime mandatory reporting for clergy is mentioned, one person here always rushes in to give us a sermon on why that's a bad idea. Meanwhile the extent to which the RCC has been for decades engaging in a massive conspiracy to conceal child rape on a biblical scale, the extent to which we don't even know yet.

At best it's tone deafness taken to a high art form. At worst it's child rape apologia.