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MineralMan

(148,028 posts)
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 03:30 PM Dec 2018

If the Bible is primarily metaphorical or allegorical, it's a work of fiction.

The Harry Potter series and the Lord of the Rings Trilogy are also works of fiction. What's the difference? Jonathan Swift's Gulliver's Travels is also a work of allegorical and metaphorical fiction. How is the Bible better than that?

Some people who are Christians agree that the Bible is not meant to be taken as non-fiction and that it is metaphorical in nature. Other Christians claim it's "God's Own Truth." Clearly, the second group does not have evidence on its side.

So, if it's not a work of non-fiction, where is its value as a guidebook? Where does the salvation come from? What does it really mean? Both the Harry Potter series and Lord of the Rings are full of moral truths and lessons. They're pretty much the same truths and lessons as are in the Bible. In fact, a lot of fiction has those truths and lessons in it. That's because they're logical, recognizable, and about as universal as any thing is.

So, why is one work of fiction so important. Time? Well, yes, the Bible's been around a long time, in one version or another. But truth? Is fiction truth? Is metaphor reality? Is allegory equivalent to actual events?

Food for thought...

40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If the Bible is primarily metaphorical or allegorical, it's a work of fiction. (Original Post) MineralMan Dec 2018 OP
keep swinging away don Fullduplexxx Dec 2018 #1
Don? MineralMan Dec 2018 #2
+1000 demosincebirth Dec 2018 #5
I think the whole question was best examined in this (admittedly fictitious) scene: DFW Dec 2018 #3
Very good, indeed! MineralMan Dec 2018 #4
My absolute most favorite scene in the entire series of West Wing!!!! nt AZ8theist Dec 2018 #16
I have many DFW Dec 2018 #17
I have many as well, ... AZ8theist Dec 2018 #20
I think CJ and the General is a little better, but this is close :) /nt LongtimeAZDem Dec 2018 #29
IMO it's for sure some of it was LSD inspired and/or written by psychos. And then there are the RKP5637 Dec 2018 #6
Reductio ad absurdum FBaggins Dec 2018 #7
So which one(s) don't include hocus pocus? Major Nikon Dec 2018 #10
An excellent question. MineralMan Dec 2018 #12
Or... Major Nikon Dec 2018 #15
Well, I saw a talking mule on TV. MineralMan Dec 2018 #23
Might be from the other side of the gene pool tho Major Nikon Dec 2018 #24
Which ones are "clearly historical"? Act_of_Reparation Dec 2018 #11
Another excellent question. MineralMan Dec 2018 #13
The point you're missing... FBaggins Dec 2018 #38
Oh, my... MineralMan Dec 2018 #39
Yes, explain to us dummies what history is. Act_of_Reparation Dec 2018 #40
What's absurd is any claim that any part of the Bible MineralMan Dec 2018 #14
Ah, c'mon, Mineral!! AZ8theist Dec 2018 #18
Well, there's that. MineralMan Dec 2018 #22
While they have found towns mentioned in the bible, Nantucket also exists, LakeSuperiorView Dec 2018 #21
Jesus metaphored over the Sea of Galilee, which does exist Major Nikon Dec 2018 #25
What, no cream cheese? LakeSuperiorView Dec 2018 #27
There had to be metaphorical condiments to go with the metaphorical lox. Major Nikon Dec 2018 #30
The schmear goes without saying. MineralMan Dec 2018 #33
I already dispute the "nonfiction" classification DFW Dec 2018 #19
Easier to pretend talking snakes, donkeys, and bushes are real Major Nikon Dec 2018 #28
History? edhopper Dec 2018 #31
There you have it. Fiction guarded WhiteTara Dec 2018 #8
More analogous to the Iliad & the Odyssey, IMO, but certainly you are correct. malchickiwick Dec 2018 #9
historical fiction... handmade34 Dec 2018 #26
God did not write edhopper Dec 2018 #32
Thank goodness. God spoke Elizabethan English. MineralMan Dec 2018 #34
And it was after the great vowel shift. edhopper Dec 2018 #35
Food for thought? guillaumeb Dec 2018 #36
Nothing wrong with leftovers. MineralMan Dec 2018 #37

DFW

(56,897 posts)
17. I have many
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 05:45 PM
Dec 2018

But that one is definitely in the top ten, maybe top five. Sorkin is one BRILLIANT scriptwriter, but it was perfectly cast and acted, too.

AZ8theist

(6,565 posts)
20. I have many as well, ...
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 06:00 PM
Dec 2018

But the put-down of a sanctimonious "Dr Laura" lookalike was AWESOME!!!!

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)
6. IMO it's for sure some of it was LSD inspired and/or written by psychos. And then there are the
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 03:51 PM
Dec 2018

books/portions they threw out. ... like today, propaganda meant to inspire certain behaviors. I love it when someone tells me they read the entire bible. In my world it's like DUH! One guy told me he read it three times. DUH!


FBaggins

(27,804 posts)
7. Reductio ad absurdum
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 04:04 PM
Dec 2018

The bible isn't a single book (actually... the name makes that clear), and different pieces have different proportions of readers believing that they are metaphor/inspired.

Some of the books are clearly historical, others are poetry. Some pieces of other books are considered by some to be allegorical, but that's entirely different from saying that they are "fiction". Comparisons to Tolkien/Rowling books are laughable of course - particularly in the case of Tolkien (as is an implication that metaphor and "God's own truth" are the only options on that spectrum).

Of course... Guinness ranks it as the #1 selling nonfiction book of all time. So there that.

FBaggins

(27,804 posts)
38. The point you're missing...
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 08:28 PM
Dec 2018

... is that a historian getting facts wrong does not move his published history text from non-fiction to fiction.

Act_of_Reparation

(9,116 posts)
40. Yes, explain to us dummies what history is.
Tue Dec 18, 2018, 08:20 AM
Dec 2018

History, by my reckoning, is an attempt to chronicle antecedent events to provide understanding for those who were not there, particularly future generations. There isn't a single book of the bible I've read that even remotely appears to serve this end. The ultimate goal is not historical understanding, but promulgation of religious belief. These are not historical chronicles. They are myths with real historical figures as characters. If we are to consider Exodus historical because Pharaoh was a real guy, we may as well move "Cold Mountain", "Dances With Wolves", and "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" over to the non-fiction section posthaste.

MineralMan

(148,028 posts)
14. What's absurd is any claim that any part of the Bible
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 05:40 PM
Dec 2018

is actually historical or factual. Show your evidence. Babel? Jonah? Patriarchs living hundreds of years? It is to laugh.

AZ8theist

(6,565 posts)
18. Ah, c'mon, Mineral!!
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 05:48 PM
Dec 2018

The burning bush and the talking snake HAVE TO BE REAL, amiright??!?!?!

MineralMan

(148,028 posts)
22. Well, there's that.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 06:16 PM
Dec 2018

But it was a "serpent" so it might have been, you know, a dragon. They're real, too. See Harry Potter.

 

LakeSuperiorView

(1,533 posts)
21. While they have found towns mentioned in the bible, Nantucket also exists,
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 06:07 PM
Dec 2018

so surely there was a white whale. Sherlock Holmes as well as Harry Potter must have existed as the streets of London are known to many.

Major Nikon

(36,911 posts)
25. Jesus metaphored over the Sea of Galilee, which does exist
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 06:48 PM
Dec 2018

Right after he metaphorically filled the bellies of a 5 thousand with a couple of fish and a dozen bagels.

Major Nikon

(36,911 posts)
30. There had to be metaphorical condiments to go with the metaphorical lox.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 07:01 PM
Dec 2018

Wouldn't be kosher otherwise.

DFW

(56,897 posts)
19. I already dispute the "nonfiction" classification
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 05:49 PM
Dec 2018

Of course, Guinness can call it what it wants. But they might as well also call the Harry Potter series "nonfiction," as far as I'm concerned. It won't change my perception of either.

Major Nikon

(36,911 posts)
28. Easier to pretend talking snakes, donkeys, and bushes are real
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 06:59 PM
Dec 2018

...than offending the privileged majority by calling it fiction.

WhiteTara

(30,229 posts)
8. There you have it. Fiction guarded
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 04:05 PM
Dec 2018

by Power. The power lies in people believing that work of fiction and taking it as gospel. I see so many Egyptian, Greek and even older myths used as the foundation of the story. Without the "stolen" stories of others, there would be no bible.

malchickiwick

(1,474 posts)
9. More analogous to the Iliad & the Odyssey, IMO, but certainly you are correct.
Mon Dec 17, 2018, 04:10 PM
Dec 2018

The difference being that we have exact replicas of precisely what Swift, Tolkien, and Rowling put down on paper, while those other works began as oral stories only written down after many centuries (in ancient languages) and come to us only after multiple translations.

But fiction? Indubitably.

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