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First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
Tue Feb 12, 2019, 06:05 PM Feb 2019

What franchise has the best all-time all-star team...?

...for the sake of this thread, a couple of rules. The Dodgers, Giants, and other franchises who've moved are counted as one "franchise", not two. And you can cut corners to get somebody on the team, if his absence would create an absurdity. For instance--Mickey Mantle can play left field, to get him on the Yankee team, instead of having to use a "left fielder". (Not that there's anything wrong with, say, Charlie Keller. But he isn't Mantle.) Or Miggie Cabrera can be used at third on the Tigers--he won two MVPs there, after all--so he and Greenberg can both be named.
You'd think the Yankees immediately, of course. Maybe so. But before we crown them, let's think a bit. Pretty clearly, it isn't a post-1961 expansion team. The best of those--the Mets? Royals?--have good teams...but not really great. Some--like the Padres--are, let's face it, mediocre. So that leaves us 16 to play with. A few of those can be eliminated at once. The Senators/Twins, the Phillies, the Browns/Orioles, the White Sox--you can get good teams there, but not at the level of the Yankees or Red Sox. Some--like the Tigers, Pirates, or Reds--have superb line-ups, but so-so pitching. Some, like the Cardinals or Dodgers, are great--but not quite great enough. To me, there are only three real contenders--the Giants, Red Sox, and Yankees.
The Giants 8-man line-up in impressive. Posey. (Ewing was great, but for chrissakes it was the 1880s.) McCovey--over Terry; I think he clearly wins--Kent, Travis Jackson, Matt Williams. Infield is OK. But the outfield! Bonds, Mays, Ott. Wow. And the pitching--double wow. Rusie, Mathewson, Hubbell, Marichal, Baumgarner. McGinnity doesn't make the team. Wilhelm or Nen as reliever. Not bad.
The Sawx. Fisk. Jimmie Foxx. Bobbie Doerr. Nomar Garciaparra. Wade Boggs. Helluva infield. Outfield? Williams. Speaker, the most underrated player in baseball history. Stick Yaz in right, which he could have played. And their pitching staff's not bad, either. Cy Young. Babe Ruth. (Yeah, I'm using him here. New York can sue me.) Lefty Grove. (Him, too. He won a bunch of ERA titles here.) Clemens. Pedro, who in his prime was probably the greatest pitcher in history. Radatz for closer. (Hey, I'm, 65. I choose Radatz.)
Then we have the--ahem--Yankees. Yogi. (Dickey and Posada were great. But not quite great enough.) Gehrig. Joe Gordon, in a close decision over Lazzeri, Randolph, Cano. Jeter. Arod. Not a bad infield, eh? And a few gents in the outfield you might have heard of--Mantle, DiMaggio, Ruth. But here's the rub. The Yankees have had a lot of very good pitchers, but not many unquestionably great ones. Ford, yes. But after him...? It's virtually pick 'em. My picks would be Gomez, Guidry, Mussina and Pettite. But there are 20 others, on that level, whom you could name. The reliever...? Duh. I won't even name him.
For me, the Yankee's majestic line-up is, well, majestic. But the relative weakness of their starting pitching--in *this* company--puts them second. The Giants? Well, Bonds/Mays/Ott is virtually as good as Mantle/DiMaggio/Ruth. But not quite. Their pitching is as good as any. But so is the Red Sox'...and the Sox' infield, I think, is distinctly better. So: I choose the Red Sox by a hair, followed by the Yankees and Giants. Flame away...

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What franchise has the best all-time all-star team...? (Original Post) First Speaker Feb 2019 OP
It's the Yankees, but not by as much as many think The Polack MSgt Feb 2019 #1

The Polack MSgt

(13,455 posts)
1. It's the Yankees, but not by as much as many think
Wed Feb 13, 2019, 01:50 PM
Feb 2019

And #2 are the Cardinals - Who I believe you seriously under value.

Player manager/pinch hitter -Red Schoendist - Hall of fame 2nd baseman and Manager on the bench because of -
2nd Base - Rogers Hornsby - ROGERS FUCKING HORNSBY
1st Base - the first 11 years of Albert Pujols - Gold Glove defender who hits .320 with 35 HR and 105 RBI AVERAGE each year
3rd Base - is an issue - Kenny Boyer or Scott Rolen? Kenny Boyer - Barely - Because he won an MVP and is on all the "Best Players not in the HOF" articles and Scott spent as much time in Philly as he did in the Lou
Short Stop - Ozzie Smith. Best defensive short stop in a defense 1st era. One of the best fielders in history, dead average replacement level hitter but a force on the base paths
Catcher - Yadi Molina - Best Catcher of his generation and in the best 5 all time list

Monster infield without a doubt, and not the best part of the Cardinals because the 5 Outfielders ( I'm platooning a couple of HOF level outfielders, so sue me) the Cards can run out every day.

Stan Musial - THE MAN. Career counting numbers - average .331, Hits 3,630, Home runs, 475, RBI 1,951, with 6,134 total bases
Joe Medwick - National League Triple Crown Winner. Career numbers - average .324, Home runs 205, Hits 2,471, RBI 1,383
Lou Brock - Retired as the all time steals leader. Led the NL in triples and doubles in 1968 and in singles in 1972 career numbers average, .293, Hits, 3,023, Home runs, 149, RBI 900, Stolen bases 938
Enos Slaughter - 10 time all star. Career numbers- average .300, Hits 2,383, Home runs 169, RBI 1,304
Jim Edmonds. - 4th outfielder defensive replacement and pinch hitter. A gold Glove center fielder batting .284 with 393 home runs is the Cardinals utility outfielder.

Now that leaves us at pitching

Bob Gibson - SP, Win–loss 251–174, ERA 2.91, Strikeouts 3,117. 2 Cy Young Awards 1968 National League MVP
Dizzy Dean - SP injuries limited his career but was the last NL pitcher to win 30 games in a season HOF career was mainly 6 years with Cards during which he did things - Four time All-Star selection (1934, 1935, 1936, 1937) -Four consecutive strikeout titles (1934–1937) Led National League in complete games for four consecutive years (1934–1937)
Chris Carpenter - SP. Cy Young winner, two-time World Series champion, three-time All-Star twice named the Sporting News National League Pitcher of the Year, and Comeback Player of the Year. record 144–94, ERA 3.76, Strikeouts 1,697
Bob Forsch - SP. Holding on too long cost his ERA quite a bit (especially his last 2 years as an Astro) but his years as a Cardinal were strong - 2 no hitters and 163 victories, 20 game winner in 1977
John Tudor - SP. Ya just got to have a lefty. His 6 seasons in St Louis included his best years. in 85 he started 1-7 with a 3.7 ERA and then went 20-1 with an ERA of 1.37. Finished that year 21-8 with a 1,93 ERA

Relief pitchers -

Bruce Sutter - RP. Invented the Split Finger. HOFer. Cy Young winner, led the NL in saves 5 times
Adam Wainwright -RP. A good, almost great starter but in the bullpen here because of "THE CURVE" that won the pennant in 2006
Lee Smith - RP - HOF closer - Scary man with a scary fast ball

There you go. This is the second best roster of all time and only the fact that the Yankees have Babe Ruth puts 'em 2nd




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