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DetlefK

(16,517 posts)
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 03:58 AM Jul 2018

Hypothetical/philosophical question about 2nd Amendment. What would you do?

In the 1990s there was the TV-series "Sliders". It's about a group of people traveling through parallel universes, trying to find their way home. In each episode they have to stick around and blend in for days/weeks before the next portal opens.



In one episode they end up in a parallel universe where the American Revolution never happened. There is no USA. 1990's North-America is still a british colony, run by a strongman. The protagonists accidentally kick off a violent revolution that turns into shootouts and street-warfare by the end of the episode. They have to leave and enter the portal, but they also want to help the rebels. So they give the rebels one last present:

The professor starts dictating the US Constitution from memory. When he comes to the 2nd Amendment, the main-protagonist cautions him whether he really wants to include that amendment. The professor responds that they don't have the right to make the decision to leave out the 2nd Amendment.

With the Constitution written down, they enter the portal and leave. End of episode.






Imagine being in that situation. Imagine the American Revolution being fought in the 1990s with semi-automatic pistols, machine-guns, pipe-bombs, cars, tanks, planes, electricity, radio, penicillin...

Which version of the US Constitution would you dictate to the rebels?
The 2018-version?
The 1789-version, without equal rights and without a whole lot of other things?
With the 1789-version of the 2nd Amendment or would you invent a different 2nd Amendment?

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Hypothetical/philosophical question about 2nd Amendment. What would you do? (Original Post) DetlefK Jul 2018 OP
All slaves have the right to bear arms and slaves will be provided the latest technology in arms Canoe52 Jul 2018 #1
Leave it out. lamsmy Jul 2018 #2
The Constitution as it stands now, with amendments. The Mouth Jul 2018 #3
Considering the 2nd amendment was about the lack of trust in the new govt powers, jmg257 Jul 2018 #4
make it clear for future authoritarians and gejohnston Jul 2018 #5
Just a few really basic thoughts discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2018 #6

Canoe52

(2,963 posts)
1. All slaves have the right to bear arms and slaves will be provided the latest technology in arms
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 04:50 AM
Jul 2018

as long as the right to own slaves is in the constitution. Slave owners will not have that right.

Should be a good balance

lamsmy

(155 posts)
2. Leave it out.
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 05:11 AM
Jul 2018

The view and use of firearms has changed dramatically over time and probably will continue to do so. The framers of the Constitution added the second amendment with very clear purpose relevant to the exact circumstances and concerns of the time.

Those underlying concerns are no longer relevant in today's world which leaves this historical remnant completely out of sync with a modern society's attempts at law enforcement and improving health and safety. Crime rates are lower in developped nations with strict gun laws. Police officers almost never shoot anyone, including criminals, largely because they are less likely to be shot themselves. Accidental deaths by firearms in Europe and Canada are a tiny fraction of the number they are in the US.

Having this amendment in a nation taught to revere the sanctity of their constitution forces Americans to either twist modern logic to suit a two hundred year old document or attack the document itself. It's a lose lose situation and an error that has cost countless lives.

On another note, the freedom OF religion bit should also have specifically included freedom FROM the religion of others.

The Mouth

(3,313 posts)
3. The Constitution as it stands now, with amendments.
Fri Jul 6, 2018, 10:41 AM
Jul 2018

Personally, I'd make the first and second vastly more unambiguous and absolute, but I like both guns and free speech.

jmg257

(11,996 posts)
4. Considering the 2nd amendment was about the lack of trust in the new govt powers,
Tue Jul 10, 2018, 07:39 AM
Jul 2018

plus the vital role of the State militias vs standing armies, I think it would depend on how you treated those subjects.

If you include A1/S8/15 & 16, and maintain the reduced role of the federal military, then you need to secure the militias right to arms. I cant imagine there would be any less trust that a new govt would not to render the militias useless....tyrants suck.

Count on the federal armies & law enforcement to protect our liberties as guaranteed in the Constitution - and your need of militias diminishes.

Redefine the militias, and their roles, or secure their ability to be effective...they have VERY important roles to play..

Just be a bit clearer in your dictating so there is no debate over purpose and security.

gejohnston

(17,502 posts)
5. make it clear for future authoritarians and
Tue Jul 10, 2018, 08:38 AM
Jul 2018

moral busybodies that it is an individual right just like the rest of the BoR, IOW I would leave out the prefatory clause.

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,602 posts)
6. Just a few really basic thoughts
Sat Jul 14, 2018, 11:42 AM
Jul 2018

First, the hypothetical North American colony has evolved politically and technically in a different path from the one our current US has taken. At the time of the founding a great amount of English legal knowledge and experience was present and drawn upon by the founders. This country, whatever its government or lack thereof, will have some type of law with which its people are familiar. There can't be too great of a diversion from that in order maintain a degree of logical continuity. Not knowing that law would pass on only the essence of the Bill of Rights and maintain that the 2A specifically provides protection for the private and individual right to keep and bear arms but clarifying that militia service is not a prerequisite or concurrent condition for that right. I would further strongly urge those folks to make militia participation and distributed state based military a priority in order to help prevent future tyrants from using it as a tool to enforce the compliance of the people to his demands.

I feel that our current Constitution is a bit weak in formulating requirements for state militia participation.

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