Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumWhat would the conversation be if
the loser in Parkland actually used an automatic weapon, be it from the black market or made in the back shed Luty or STEN?
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)someone made at home?
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)What causes the conversation isn't as important as the conversation itself.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)but the conversation is pointless if it is one sided or not totally honest. Right now, you have one side (mostly grassroots) who are knowledgeable about firearms, firearms laws, and crime statistics and are using facts and reason. The other is mostly astro turfed by the "billionaire class" who misinform the well meaning but naive who know nothing about those subjects and use logical fallacies and dishonest statistics.
HopeAgain
(4,407 posts)If you take Las Vegas, Pulse Nightclub and Parkland, 125 people were killed and 599 were wounded by just three people before anyone could stop them. There's nothing fallacious or dishonest about that statistic. That is an unacceptable statistic to me.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Pulse night club, Orlando cops played negotiator for three hours until the POS offed himself. At least half of those who died, died of blood loss and would have survived if medical attention arrived. From his wife's trial we know that his dad was an FBI informant because the POS' ties to ISIS and his first choice was Disney but was scared off by armed guards. Of course, many progressives blamed Christians for the murders. Of course, blaming any Muslim other than the POS would be wrong and bigoted. Blaming Christians and the shooting sports community is?????????
Parkland. Couldn't or wouldn't? Four BSO cops stood around outside and listened to the shots and did nothing. When cops from Coral Springs showed up and entered the building, Cruz was long gone and buying a soda at Wal Mart and BSO was still hiding behind their cars. Again, if the RO had guts or put the social contract above orders, lives would have been saved. Again, many died of blood loss and would have survived their wounds if EMS weren't prevented from entering.
We don't know that much about Las Vegas.
That gives us one spree, one terrorist, and one unknown (although ISIS doubled down that LV was their guy)
If you take Happyland Night Club and the New York truck attack alone gives us 95 dead without a firearm.
I agree that is an unacceptable statistic, but your argument is fallacious (appeal to emotion).
spin
(17,493 posts)It is after all the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history. Despite the fact that there are a lot of unanswered questions the incident has basically disappeared off the radar.
Always Right
(84 posts)Probably would be exactly the same conversation.
They would still want to ban semi-automatic guns, in particular the AR-15.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)Ooops, nevermind, you've been banned because every one of your posts is about guns and mostly defending DOING NOTHING.
Obvious poster is obvious.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)that does nothing but trash the BoR?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)is it a large percentage or small percentage or about half?
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)frankly I don't care. I don't base my opinions on what is popular.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)in US History.
I know what you want us to say...that we'd all scream that automatics should be banned, but that they aren't are and the ban didn't work.
But your hypothetical is hypothetical against numerous actual occurrences that used legal or legally-obtained weapons.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)Unless you are believe in animism. The Las Vegas shooting might have been a combination of AR-15s and AR-10s, but is still under investigation. The worst mass shooting in the past couple of years was with (illegally obtained) automatic weapons at a concert, which is why the band is calling bullshit on American gun control activists.
If it was a basement made Luty or Sten, Chris Coumo might be walking through Home Depot telling us what to buy. If it was a black market weapon, I'm guessing Bloomberg's favorite Monsanto executive would be tweeting some bullshit about the "gun show loophole" or find some other way to demonetize their opponents. Maybe, just maybe, the focus would be where it belongs: on the corrupt and incompetent Scott Israel who knew before going to CNN that four deputies cowered outside, but claimed that he showed "outstanding leadership". The story is now that their captain ordered them to stay out because of the lack of body cameras. That isn't counting the 39 times (including the two where Cruz called the cops on himself). Then the worthless POS has the balls to demand more arbitrary police power when he had more than enough power to deal with it, but didn't, for fuck knows why.
If he killed more people with something other than a firearm (like the bomb planted at a Utah school that same week, but it fortunately malfunctioned or the mass stabbing in PA that same week.) Both of those were local stories.
In the US, these occurrences, while well publicized, are actually very rare when compared to the rest of the population. On a per capita basis, we are something like 11th behind several European countries. There are even fewer than 20 years ago, most school homicides are beatings and stabbings.
Paladin
(29,068 posts)....with a Winchester Model 70, bolt action, 5-shot capacity deer rifle. Different sorts of firearms feed different sorts of fantasies.
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)And some Canadian on Parliament Hill? One thing about Afghanistan, WW1&2 era bolt actions trump assault rifles on distance and power.
Home Depot trucks are not hypothetical.
I see you missed the point entirely.
Straw Man
(6,799 posts)... whose bolt action was a humble .22 and whose shotgun was a traditional double-barrel.