Gun Control & RKBA

SecularMotion

(7,981 posts) Fri Mar 18, 2016, 06:24 AM Mar 2016

When Can the Government Take Away Your Guns?

Ralph Gilbertson, a 74-year-old living in Richfield, Minnesota, thinks the CIA is watching him. He thinks agents are impersonating his neighbors and the local cops, and he has sent letters out to the managers of his apartment building saying so. He also thinks that the cops' recent seizure of his guns is unconstitutional, and he's likely right.

His weapons—he has three handguns, which he's licensed to carry—were taken away by the police after his building managers called a city agency worried about the apparent combination of firearms and paranoia that he represented, reported the Star-Tribune on Sunday.

But Gilbertson is challenging the seizure of his weapons in a case that shows just how complicated it is to take away someone's guns in America.

While his disposition may make his neighbors nervous, Gilbertson isn't a convicted felon, hasn't been charged with domestic violence, and no court or psychiatrist has ruled he's a ticking time bomb. (He suffers from a mild form of bipolar disorder, but according to the Star-Tribune, "his psychiatrist sent a letter to the judge saying that Gilbertsen is compliant with his medications and poses no danger to himself or others.&quot

https://www.vice.com/read/when-can-the-government-take-away-your-guns

31 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

When Can the Government Take Away Your Guns? (Original Post) SecularMotion Mar 2016 OP

Guns are people, too, my friend. And guns have civil rights, just like you, me, and... stone space Mar 2016 #1

We have to be careful when removing rights to make people feel good. ileus Mar 2016 #2

Removing guns is not the same thing as removing rights. stone space Mar 2016 #3

Read the constitution much? Puha Ekapi Mar 2016 #4

Not the Scalia approved annotated version. stone space Mar 2016 #5

The old no one owned guns until Scalia allowed them to argument. ileus Mar 2016 #6

So tell me.. Puha Ekapi Mar 2016 #7

Your qualifiers, not mine. stone space Mar 2016 #13

Aaaaannnnnd, Stoney leaps into his trusty... Puha Ekapi Mar 2016 #18

Where did those qualifiers come from? stone space Mar 2016 #20

What is your position on private gun ownership? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2016 #23

I'm sorry that the subtleties... Puha Ekapi Mar 2016 #24

This is what I support: stone space Mar 2016 #25

I think that wins the Evasion of the Year award. Straw Man Mar 2016 #26

Perhaps this will make it easier discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2016 #27

Notice how he runs away Duckhunter935 Mar 2016 #28

Perhaps not fear but a lack of articulation discntnt_irny_srcsm Mar 2016 #29

Now he will think you attack his profession and alert on you Duckhunter935 Mar 2016 #30

How about the Democratic Party approved annotated version? hack89 Mar 2016 #9

I'm sure our friend.. Puha Ekapi Mar 2016 #10

I've traveled to Washington to inform the Supremes of my disagreement with them before. stone space Mar 2016 #14

The Iowa Socialist Party? Do they still even exist? stone space Mar 2016 #12

Sorry. Thought you were a Democrat. nt hack89 Mar 2016 #15

I crash the Party and caucus with the Democrats every 4 years. stone space Mar 2016 #19

I have no problem with it hack89 Mar 2016 #21

SPUSA in Austin sometimes met for target practice in the Hill Country. Eleanors38 Mar 2016 #31

So, I take it you oppose Scalia's opinions on Texas v. Johnson, Maryland v. King... Marengo Mar 2016 #17

Actually, it is the same thing. Waldorf Mar 2016 #11

Unless it's firearms...then it's OK and considered "progressive" ileus Mar 2016 #16

Do you recall that the opening battle in the American war for independence was fought because Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2016 #22

The government can take your guns away TeddyR Mar 2016 #8

stone space

(6,498 posts)

1. Guns are people, too, my friend. And guns have civil rights, just like you, me, and...

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 07:22 AM

Mar 2016

...the Bank of America.

Even guns owned by crazy people still have civil rights that must be respected, under the Second Commandment.

ileus

(15,396 posts)

2. We have to be careful when removing rights to make people feel good.

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 07:59 AM

Mar 2016

I don't like that my neighbor is a trump fan, who do I call to get his rights taken away?

I remember reading here more than once people who want to own guns period have mental health problems...What is to keep any one of us from turning in a neighbor that we disagree with?

Always remember, guns don't have rights...people do.

stone space

(6,498 posts)

3. Removing guns is not the same thing as removing rights.

Reply to ileus (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 08:07 AM

Mar 2016

We have to be careful when removing rights to make people feel good.

You might call it removing wrongs, however.

Removing wrongs is different from removing rights.

You are conflating the two.

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)

4. Read the constitution much?

Reply to stone space (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 08:26 AM

Mar 2016

Apparently not....

stone space

(6,498 posts)

5. Not the Scalia approved annotated version.

Reply to Puha Ekapi (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 08:35 AM

Mar 2016

I'll leave that to Scalia fans.

ileus

(15,396 posts)

6. The old no one owned guns until Scalia allowed them to argument.

Reply to stone space (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 08:47 AM

Mar 2016

maybe you're right...

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)

7. So tell me..

Reply to stone space (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 08:50 AM

Mar 2016

...is it your desire that there be no legal civilian ownership of firearms?

stone space

(6,498 posts)

13. Your qualifiers, not mine.

Reply to Puha Ekapi (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:33 AM

Mar 2016

So tell me..

...is it your desire that there be no legal civilian ownership of firearms?

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)

18. Aaaaannnnnd, Stoney leaps into his trusty...

Reply to stone space (Reply #13)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 08:01 AM

Mar 2016

...Dodge and speeds away. Nice non-answer there, friend.

stone space

(6,498 posts)

20. Where did those qualifiers come from?

Reply to Puha Ekapi (Reply #18)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:14 AM

Mar 2016

They have nothing to do with any position of mine.

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

23. What is your position on private gun ownership?

Reply to stone space (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:42 AM

Mar 2016

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)

24. I'm sorry that the subtleties...

Reply to stone space (Reply #20)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:39 AM

Mar 2016

...of a simple question are taxing you so. Let's make this real easy. Are you opposed to citizen ownership of firearms? Are you not opposed?

stone space

(6,498 posts)

25. This is what I support:

Reply to Puha Ekapi (Reply #24)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 11:57 AM

Mar 2016

Straw Man

(6,799 posts)

26. I think that wins the Evasion of the Year award.

Reply to stone space (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:27 PM

Mar 2016

"Rather than answer your simple question, I will require you to watch a 90-minute video in which there may or may not be something tangentially related to the issue."

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,602 posts)

27. Perhaps this will make it easier

Reply to stone space (Reply #25)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 01:34 PM

Mar 2016

Do you accept the citizen ownership of firearms?

For a NO simply put the word "no" in the subject line of your reply.

Reply with a subject other than "no" or just don't reply at all and I'll accept that as a yes.

thanks

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

28. Notice how he runs away

Reply to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #27)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:52 PM

Mar 2016

And is so very scared to answer a very simple yes or no question

discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,602 posts)

29. Perhaps not fear but a lack of articulation

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #28)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:58 PM

Mar 2016

Sometimes mathematical folk lack the ability to say what they think in a complete, correct and concise manner.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

30. Now he will think you attack his profession and alert on you

Reply to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #29)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 05:59 PM

Mar 2016

hack89

(39,180 posts)

9. How about the Democratic Party approved annotated version?

Reply to stone space (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 09:12 AM

Mar 2016

the one that says the 2A protects an individual right to keep and bear arms? Are you even familiar with your party's platform?

Puha Ekapi

(594 posts)

10. I'm sure our friend..

Reply to hack89 (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 09:21 AM

Mar 2016

...is on a plane to Washington to get that corrected ASAP. Then we can all fart rainbows and ride unicorns.

stone space

(6,498 posts)

14. I've traveled to Washington to inform the Supremes of my disagreement with them before.

Reply to Puha Ekapi (Reply #10)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:35 AM

Mar 2016

I'm sure our friend..

...is on a plane to Washington to get that corrected ASAP. Then we can all fart rainbows and ride unicorns.

I'm not sure why you find that so funny.

stone space

(6,498 posts)

12. The Iowa Socialist Party? Do they still even exist?

Reply to hack89 (Reply #9)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:31 AM

Mar 2016

Are you even familiar with your party's platform?

We were affiliated with the SPUSA back in the day, but no, I haven't seen their current platform.

Have you?

hack89

(39,180 posts)

15. Sorry. Thought you were a Democrat. nt

Reply to stone space (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:37 AM

Mar 2016

stone space

(6,498 posts)

19. I crash the Party and caucus with the Democrats every 4 years.

Reply to hack89 (Reply #15)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:12 AM

Mar 2016

Sorry. Thought you were a Democrat. nt

Mainly because they let me. In fact, at the Iowa Democratic Caucus, participation has always been not only permitted, but actively encouraged. It's just how things work here.

hack89

(39,180 posts)

21. I have no problem with it

Reply to stone space (Reply #19)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 09:39 AM

Mar 2016

while it does sometimes generate conflict I think a wide range of people and ideas are healthy for any political party.

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)

31. SPUSA in Austin sometimes met for target practice in the Hill Country.

Reply to stone space (Reply #12)

Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:15 PM

Mar 2016

and

Marengo

(3,477 posts)

17. So, I take it you oppose Scalia's opinions on Texas v. Johnson, Maryland v. King...

Reply to stone space (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 10:38 PM

Mar 2016

or Brown v. Entertainment Merchants?

Waldorf

(654 posts)

11. Actually, it is the same thing.

Reply to stone space (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 11:25 AM

Mar 2016

He legally owns the firearms. Taking something without due process is wrong.

ileus

(15,396 posts)

16. Unless it's firearms...then it's OK and considered "progressive"

Reply to Waldorf (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 01:04 PM

Mar 2016

how fucked up is that???

Nuclear Unicorn

(19,497 posts)

22. Do you recall that the opening battle in the American war for independence was fought because

Reply to stone space (Reply #3)

Sat Mar 19, 2016, 10:41 AM

Mar 2016

the British government was attempting to seize privately owned weapons?

I'm not sure how you can claim the founders saw no private right to own guns after the began a rebellion over the right to own guns.

TeddyR

(2,493 posts)

8. The government can take your guns away

Reply to SecularMotion (Original post)

Fri Mar 18, 2016, 09:04 AM

Mar 2016

When you are a convicted felon or a convicted domestic abuser. They don't get to take away a fundamental right when one of your neighbors thinks you are acting a little strange. And California's initiative to seize people's firearms is exactly why many people oppose mandatory registration.

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