Gun Control & RKBA
Related: About this forumBill Clinton says percentage of gun-owning households dropping every year
"The NRA and the gun manufacturers know that every year there is a slightly smaller percentage of American households owning guns," Clinton, a Democrat, said during the Feb. 24 speech at the Hippodrome theater.
"So what they have to do every time somebody says Would you please give us three days to do a background check and maybe a little more if we dont have consolidated mental health records they go nuts and say, Well this is the beginning of the end. Theyre violating the Second Amendment. Theyre coming after your gun."
We wondered whether Clinton was correct that, every year, theres a slow and steady decline in the proportion of households that own guns.
http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/mar/07/bill-clinton/bill-clinton-says-percentage-gun-owning-households/
AllyCat
(17,318 posts)And mass shootings. Oh wait a minute....
gejohnston
(17,502 posts)has been decreasing over the past two decades. Suicide, which are the majority, not so much. Mass murders are neither increasing or decreasing and 2003 was the worst year in recent decades.
Other than dragging out the dumb guns and cars analogy and having a fact wrong about Gabby's shooter, this guy is does a pretty good job in explaining it.
The asshole that shot Gabby didn't run out of ammo as commonly believed. The gun jammed, as did the AR used by the Colorado movie theater. That is why the latter did most of the damage with the shotgun. The magazines used might impress mall ninjas at the range, but there is a very good reason the cops and military don't use them. But, I digress.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-forensic-files/201404/seven-myths-mass-murder
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)GGJohn
(9,951 posts)which is the more likely scenario.
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)Did residents of Chicago and NYC respond?
SecularMotion
(7,981 posts)How many are legal?
How many are illegal?
JonathanRackham
(1,604 posts)How can firearms in those to cities be traced?
DonP
(6,185 posts)Last year, when it was pointed out that Bill Clinton blamed the loss of both his and Al Gore's home state in the 2000 election on their stand on gun control and the NRA, we were told by your side that Clinton was absolutely wrong and that gun control was not a factor in the 2000 election.
Now the same person is suddenly the ultimate "appeal to authority" for you when he says something you agree with in a primary.
Just a smidgen of intellectual consistency from the gun control side would be nice once in a while.
But that may be hoping for too much.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)This is an insignificant change. Real statistics always include a margin of error, and I'm sure that's what you are seeing here, more than anything else.
If you want to see real change, go to opencarry.org and look at the maps.
The one I especially like is the map that changes as you view it, showing the different states as they have adopted 2A friendly policies.
The change represented on the map begins around the Clinton presidency, and if accurate, should include this week, when WV went Constitutional carry.
The other statistic I also like is the one about how crime has plummeted since the 90s.
ileus
(15,396 posts)The future depends on us.
This weekend I wrapped up another Illinois concealed carry class and qualified 5 more shooters. Three of them had never fired a gun before and will be buying their first gun in the next few weeks. All are employees of an Apple Store. "Nerds with Guns?"
One of them begged me to sell her the Ruger GP100 that she borrowed to qualify. "It doesn't have much recoil".
Another class starts next Wednesday after work.
ileus
(15,396 posts)DonP
(6,185 posts)I load it with low recoil 38 specials and with that 6 inch barrel it shoots like a .22 for them. And with adjustable sights it's accurate as all hell.
Usually they use it right after they try a few rounds with my nice, light S&W Airweight ... that gets a little "snappy" when they shoot it.
Physics is a harsh mistress, "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" goes quickly from theory to reality at the range.
The way that thing is built I figure my great, great, grand kids will be fighting over it in the will.
ileus
(15,396 posts)topped with 124g powder coated cast bullet, she loves them.
then when it's time to shoot her SD ammo she takes a beating....LOL
DonP
(6,185 posts)I get a lot of new, first time shooters, mostly women, so recoil can be a big fear for some of them. They've heard "horror" stories of how much a gun "kicks" so they fear they won't be able to control it.
If I can get them to learn the basics of sight alignment, trigger control and follow through with a soft shooting, stable gun like the GP100, without flinching and anticipating that recoil, they'll adjust over time to regular loads.
By the end of their training I have most of them shoot a magazine from one of my Mil Spec 1911s, just for fun and to see that recoil isn't really the monster they were afraid of. By the end of the magazine most of them have a big grim on their face.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)jmg257
(11,996 posts)Lots of new gun owners out there.
CompanyFirstSergeant
(1,558 posts)...just sent out letters to all applicants saying that 'don't worry, everything's fine' but we are overwhelmed with carry license applications the likes of which we have never seen before - so please be patient.
Prices of revolvers - which are still perfect for beginners* - have gone way up on the gun auction sites.
*And us old-timers.
pablo_marmol
(2,375 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)He isn't, and there's not. The only data supporting that assertion is telephone polling, none of which includes physical verification of the accuracy of responses. On controversial issues, such methodologies are essentially worthless.
jimmy the one
(2,720 posts)Politifact: Our ruling -- Bill Clinton says "every year there is a slightly smaller percentage of American households owning guns."
Although polls on gun-owning households are erratic, you can make a plausible argument they show a long-range downward trend. Clinton cites a series of surveys by the University of Chicago that show a drop of 19 percentage points since the early 1970s.
Another set of polls by Gallup show the five-decade drop is 2 percentage points. A third series of polls by Pew shows a decrease of 12 percentage points since 1993.
But much of the downward movement occurred in the 1990s, and Clinton goes overboard by saying the percentage is going down "every year." All three surveys show the yearly percentages have been fluctuating in recent years and that, since 2000, the drop is about 1 or 2 percentage points.
We rate Clintons statement Half True.
A 'half true' from politifact is not a misleading half truth; it means some parts are true, others not, count sort of as a push. Clinton should've just said since early 90's gun ownership rates have fallen, both personal gun ownership rates & in households. But a truth nonetheless, is that since the early 90's both violent crime rates have fallen and gun ownership rates have fallen, a clear correlation. Only national gunstock has increased from ~225 million to 300 million, but owning a dozen guns doesn't help any more than owning one or two, usually more hazardous.
1) Gallup: .. even Gallup's numbers show a decline in gun ownership since the early 1990s, from 54% of households in late 1993 to 43% as of this fall. http://www.gallup.com/poll/186236/americans-desire-stricter-gun-laws-sharply.aspx
people-press.org/files/2013/03/3-12-13-13.png
2): General Social Survey (GSS) .. data show a substantial decline in the shares of both households and individuals with guns... 1973, 49% reported having a gun or revolver in their home or garage. In 2012, 34% said they had a gun in their home or garage.
.. personal gun ownership in 1980, 29% said a gun in their home personally belonged to them. This stands at 22% in the 2012 GSS survey. http://www.people-press.org/2013/03/12/section-3-gun-ownership-trends-and-demographics/
3) ... The Pew Research Center has tracked gun ownership since 1993, and our surveys largely confirm the General Social Survey trend. In our Dec 1993 survey, 45% reported having a gun in their household; in early 1994, the GSS found 44% saying they had a gun in their home. A Jan 2013 Pew Research Center survey found 33% saying they had a gun, rifle or pistol in their home, as did 34% in the 2012 wave of {GSS}.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=178997
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)You attempted (poorly) to do the same thing four months ago, in this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172181197
Gun Ownership in MA Increases 66% since 2010
...after failing several months prior to that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172165724
A gun license surge in Massachusetts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172165724#post17
Then there's those 200,000+ new FOID card holders in Illinois...