http://newsroom.ucla.edu/stories/ucla-faculty-voice-america-is-no-longer-gun-shy-about-gun-control

We've been saying this for years.

It is not necessary to "ban" any weapons, but regulations on ownership and use should be stricter on military-style weapons.

As far as their use in crimes, they have been rarely used due to past restrictions.

Military style weapons should be restricted? What makes an AR-15 and the way it operates any different then my semi auto .22 rifle?
It's one pull of the trigger for every round sent downrange, that technology has been around for over 100 years, so why now is it more dangerous?

It can consistently hit man sized targets at 600+ yards with iron sights. Just ask Alvin York about it.

But let me guess, your demand for "restricting" certain types of rifles with "military styling", doesn't count as taking anyone's guns, right?

Just some more "Common Sense" ideas from the gun grabber nonsense factory.

Such a long and manly weapon you have!!! 600 yards my word!!!

It was a weapon personally chosen by Teddy Roosevelt. Issued all the way through WWII and still used as a special weapon in Vietnam for sniping.

But perk up, I know you're upset and feel all picked on and like a loser since gun control continues to flail away, but you're just another couple of hides away from a nice long rest.

Then you can calm down, or do what all the other gun control fans do and go to Discussionist and get banned there too.

With supporters as effective and "active" as you, no wonder gun control is such a hot mess and utter failure. By all means keep up the effective facade. It defines you and the "movement" so very well.

I am trying to persuade anyone.

Nope, just making fun of you nutters.

03 lol.

Full Ignore on DU is like full auto in my AK.

People who brag about things they own online are almost always lying.

lmao making nutters sooo maaaaaad with their impotent inability to threaten me with their guns.

Not true, what you're doing is making an ass of yourself with your petty insults.

Not trying to argue any points.

Not trying to argue the topic of this group.

Admits to being here just to make fun of others.



Someone please tell me why that isn't block worthy?

And rifles year after year are the least misused of all weapons, accounting for fewer deaths annually than bicycles.

The rifles you keep talking about banning are immensely popular, they're just not commonly misused. There are no "prior restrictions"; production and sale of AR-15 type rifles has never been banned in this country, not even during the 1994-2004 debacle.

Your avatar would seem to suggest you believe otherwise.

I've seen 'making up reality' before, but that really takes the cake.




How about "No".

Flush his crap. How about WHY? When I encounter unreasoned meaningless crap I flush it.

...who would rather keep some controversy alive with stupid ban proposals than to accomplish UCBs. And they will remain in charge of the "debate" as long as MSM elites keep mumbling support for them.

for a very long time because politicians have rolled over for them...in my view this makes all the gun violence state sponsored since it's the politicians who passed the laws...greased by NRA money....it's time to stop this and have some sane laws that actually work

Welcome

Like what? Any ideas?

First we both have to agree that gun nuts fetishize guns, violence and second amendment rights....also as per the MO of congress they pass laws they are completely incapable of funding...re fbi is now sitting on million of unchecked background checks...but because of loopholes just submitting info to the fbi means the gun shop owner or dealer (that's the law abiding one) gets to sell guns as a "straw purchaser" as many a he wants...(as evidenced by the millions of unprocessed background checks)....and the dealer gets to say that he sold only guns with background checks.....because of a technicality in actuality all across america all types of weapons by the millions are sold with virtually no bacground check; this is how the ame tragedy happened....in counties all across america...even tho laws are being passed in every state about background checks ...sheriff's and law enforcement are refusing to do them ..they are openly defiant...because they say they don't have the funding...I believe them...but that doesn't stop the gun dealer from selling guns with unprocessed background check...literally for months the media and the government said dylann roof had passed his background check...and that was all shot to hell when one of the family members went and testified in oregon state legislative session...in salem about how Roof had never passed a background check....certainly even tho the FBI knew this they were not saying anything about it....the whole circus of the government clean up crews showing up to a massacre and cleaning up the mess...in such a cold and efficient manner....tax payers pay billions of dollars to the government every year to clean up the bloody messes of 10's of thousands of murders....33 thousand last year I think....and yet bernie has voted 5 times to block the ability of victims families to sue...gun manufacturers....there are a couple of informative articles that have been on cnn this past week you can check them out....I don't vouch explicitly for any stats because gun violence even tho it's out in the open is so swept under the rug by the lawmakers, (politicians) bureaucracy (fbi) and nra (lobbyists..) ok so you know how the bureaucracies in various states are putting "moratoriums" the death penalty for various reasons....let that be the starting point for gun control....the state admits the job they are doing is an epic failure...a moratorium is applied and then various plans are suggested...but instead of going through congress there has to be a national vote.....that the NRA can't by pass voters and politicians can't by pass voters...because the government has failed so catastrophically to uphold the clusterfk of laws that are on the books state to state.....ok...told you that was going to be long....what do you suggest?

We don't have to agree on any such thing. I see you anti-gun folks doing far far more fetishizing that the gun folks. Pro-gun folks see the second amendment the same was as most folks see the first. But you knew that.



No they aren't.



Good god. Did you wipe these falsehoods clean after pulling them out?



Is there a translation machine I can run this through so that it makes sense?



No, they really aren't. Bloomberg is trying, I grant you that, but it seems his resources are divided between that, and attacking a Democratically elected Democratic Governor, for having the nerve to actually compromise.



There were 11208 gun murders in 2014. Newsflash. That's not "tens of thousands".



Victims families can still sue. Just not for the unlawful actions of a third party. But you knew that.


Like I said, it would be helpful if you first knew what you were talking about.

by their own estimate...more probably since the director says they can't seem to keep track of the stats....ame...church in charleston...you know clement pickney...democratic congressman and fellow church goers....you really don't remember this?

re no they aren't...fbi said they were...that is what the told congress and the wh....take it up with them not me....I am aware of bloomberg and money will not fix this problem only a change of thinking will....victims parties can still sue...doesn't mean JS (jk sht) but you know this....and yes the number reported was over 33 thousand...you are probably looking at an NRA site so that is FUBARED as far as stats are concerned...bottom line...no credibility and you have no solutions...next...

The inclusion of the suicide numbers are to purposely mislead people on gun violence.

First, heres a bit of hilarity that everyone here should see:

That's you two posts up talking about how you don't vouch for the numbers you're providing.

Now heres you just a few posts later, casting aspersions toward me for questioning numbers that you yourself say very plainly that you don't vouch for:



You just gave yourself away. Oops.



Actually it does mean something. it means manufacturers can not be sued for the third party misuse of a legally sold product. And that is as it should be.



That number doesn't represent 'homicide' with a firearm', it represents homicides and suicides.

So you are wrong.



Says the poster who I have interacted with all of twice now.

"....I don't vouch explicitly for any stats because gun violence even tho it's out in the open is so swept under the rug by the lawmakers, (politicians) bureaucracy (fbi) and nra (lobbyists..)"

"Swept under the rug"? Ummm, no. The FBI publishes them in a huge publication every single year, in the Uniform Crime Reports, accessible from the FBI website. The weapons data is in Table 20, Murder by State and Type of Weapon.

Murder, by State and Type of Weapon, 2014 (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 2014)

[font face="courier new"]Total murders...................... 11,961
Handguns............................ 5,562 (46.5%)
Firearms (type unknown)............. 2,052 (17.2%)
Clubs, rope, fire, etc.............. 1,610 (13.5%)
Knives and other cutting weapons.... 1,567 (13.1%)
Hands, fists, feet.................... 660 (5.5%)
Shotguns.............................. 262 (2.2%)
Rifles................................ 248 (2.1%) [/font]

2013:

Murder, by State and Type of Weapon, 2013 (FBI)
[font face="courier new"] Total murders...................... 12,253
Handguns............................ 5,782 (47.2%)
Firearms (type unknown)............. 2,079 (17.0%)
Clubs, rope, fire, etc.............. 1,622 (13.2%)
Knives and other cutting weapons.... 1,490 (12.2%)
Hands, fists, feet.................... 687 (5.6%)
Shotguns.............................. 308 (2.5%)
Rifles................................ 285 (2.3%) [/font]

That continues a 20-year trend of declining gun violence, which is now roughly half of what it was in the early 1990s.

Almost 4,000 of those were with weapons other than guns.

Murder, by State and Type of Weapon, 2014 (FBI Uniform Crime Reports, 2014)

[font face="courier new"]Total murders...................... 11,961
Handguns............................ 5,562 (46.5%)
Firearms (type unknown)............. 2,052 (17.2%)
Clubs, rope, fire, etc.............. 1,610 (13.5%)
Knives and other cutting weapons.... 1,567 (13.1%)
Hands, fists, feet.................... 660 (5.5%)
Shotguns.............................. 262 (2.2%)
Rifles................................ 248 (2.1%) [/font]

What anyone does or does not view as a fetish doesn't and shouldn't play a role in the law.


The NICS works to complete BGCs within minutes. Checks have a statutory limit of 3 days after which they proceed if there has been no prohibition found.


I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here. All FFLs must regardless of venue, time of day, phase of moon... run an NICS BGC on every buyer. The FFL may delay the sale while the BGC is in progress. The NICS and any state checks have 3 days by law to render either an okay proceed decision or a denial and reason. After the 3 days, the sale proceeds with or without a BGC decision. BGCs that take longer than 3 days and are returned with a denial AFAIK go to either ATF of FBI who take steps based on any laws that may have been broken. Sales between private citizens must follow state laws. Various states mandate BGCs for private sales.


What you may not know: several states have implemented their NICS participation as full Point-of-Contact for firearm purchases. South Carolina is not one of them. I suppose all states have their own priorities in electing what to fund and for how much but the Full POC states (in red at the link: https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/participation-map ) have the FFL contact a state law enforcement agency which runs its own checks of state databases while also forwarding the buyer's data for the federal check. Most of those states look to me to have a strong BLUE influence. Federal money is available for states to use in improving their BGC systems.


The CDC shows for 2014 33,599 deaths caused by firearm discharge. Of those 21,334 were suicides, 464 were law enforcement related, 586 were accidental and 270 were cases where the intent was not determined. That leaves 10,945 homicides which would include justifiable homicides. I expect the number of justifiable homicides to rather low. ( Here is a link to the CDC database query page: http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/mortrate10_us.html )


Senator Sanders voted for the PLCAA (Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act) and AFAIK defends most provisions of the act. The PLCAA prevents those companies and individuals in the industry from being sued for the criminal actions of private citizens. Is that a problem and why?


A national vote on/for what?


Glad you asked.

1: States need to take a leading role. Every state should be Full POC with NICS.
2: Every state should have at least a means for private sellers to go through law enforcement for a BGC for their buyer.
3: I'm against the death penalty but think violent offenders are released too often and too soon.
4: Most people locked up have no support system on release and return to crime. Help and monitoring are needed.
5: The war on drugs needs to end.

That's a start.

And just so many errors

The only ones fetishizing guns are those who refer to guns in sexualized terms, fetishizing violence in a fabrication on your part and I doubt you would claim women and minorities fetishize the 13th and 14th Amendments or journalists fetishize the 1st Amendment.

Yes, I did. When I asked, my interest was to hear what laws you favor to address the gun-control/rights issues. In your reply you highlighted many things from problems to failures to NRA hate. You didn't suggest anything that could be formed into a law or a change to an existing law.

You did ask me for my thoughts and I wrote a few and addressed some of what you wrote.

Out of respect for the ideas of progress, Democracy and for my time in responding I'm respectfully asking you to consider answering my original question of how you propose to change or improve the existing BGC system and related laws or reply what I wrote and to address my thoughts:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172186719#post20

Thanks

A admittedly quick Google search didn't locate that info.

Please respond to post #20.

I have my doubts we'll see substantive responses to any of our queries. The Polyannaish side of me would like to think the poster is taking a break to fully understand the concept of the paragraph.

you make everything sound easily solvable and it's not...politicians roll over for the NRA when there's no funding for bureaucracy to realistically manage the risks and pass on the tragedy and cost to the tax payer...well Scalia has died...the person replacing his seat will hear the testimony how gun dealers sell guns all across this nation with out background checks and how the FBI lies about processed background checks and how local law enforcement across this nation will not do background checks yet at the same time they will resell guns that have been used in crimes back on the streets (there is a map of states that allow this) to be used in more crimes...I wonder what they do with the money don't you?....It's very clear by the massive amount of gun violence and the epic failure of bureaucracy and gun dealers to do the job they are supposed to do that it needs to change your solutions are not solutions....it's time to look to other nations that have gotten it right and model ourselves after them....Cheers, Maggie

For the record I'm against abolishing what we've had for 220 years and starting over.

There are useful changes to be made. Specifically regarding the NICS, the system should be opened to all law enforcement such that anyone wanting to sell a gun can have them run the check. The problems with the database should be fixed.

Funding??? Yes neither Republicans nor Democrats have been forthcoming with bills to fund what's needed to begin the repairs and upgrades.

Looking to other nations can't be a bad thing but keep in mind that the governments over a hundred nations in the world have been influenced by the US Constitution in developing their own foundational documents.

...which nations "have gotten it right"?

I always give folks the benefit of the doubt. It's always good to vent on what angers but progress requires change and the only effective means for change is cooperation.

Maybe you don't have any specific ideas. I guess we'll never know.

Look at them right here in this thread spitting righteous (right wing) rage and shouting down any challenge. It's a sexual thing for the nutters, most of whom are middle aged men with declining virility. Hence the fetishistic element. You might as well propose castration.

Note how they argue. It's like rabid dogs. We "controllers" (lol) are supposed to find their aggression intimidating except on the internet they can't fondle their precious iron and intimidate anyone so they pose as tough guys and tell you about the guns they own.

I wish they would all just go join RedState and vote for Trump. Actually most probably are and they just troll liberal sites because they get off on bullying like all right wingers.

Best thing you can do is laugh at them and mock them and enjoy the theatrical tears of impotent rage they produce in response. No one is supposed to mock a tough guy with a big piece!!!!

Demography and technology will change the gun debate just as fast as gay marriage changed, within just a few years. These angry and fearful folks are dying off (or accidentally shooting themselves off lol).

The fetishistic obsession is rooted in a deep and paranoid racism as well, and we all know it. That's why Obama (who had done nothing towards gun rationality) is so good for gun sales.

Yes we are coming for your guns. Cold dead fingers and all.

Now boys let the rage filled threats and howls spew. Sucks when someone can't be shouted down huh?


I'll miss it since I have them mostly on Ignore.

...in those with poor socialization skills.

Month after month record high NICS checks.

Firearm manufacturing facilities going to 3 shifts a day, expanding and building new plants in gun friendly states and bringing their jobs and tax dollars with them.

Along with the crowds waiting for an open lane at pretty much every shooting range in the country.

Personally, my concealed carry classes have doubled in size over the last 6 months and I'm doing three 16 hour (Illinois requirement) this month alone. Once whole class is nothing but 12 employees from an Apple Store! So even the tech nerds are getting into it.

Lots of the students are new shooters, 40% are women and will be buying their first gun after a few classes, so they can make a better, informed decision on what's right for them.

As more people get into the sport and start shooting, the anti message is being laughed at more and more.

The anti BS is quickly being reduced to a handful of whiners throwing dust in the air and trying desperately to get attention and some credibility. And failing miserably at it.

Remington just built a second larger plant in Arkansas.

Winchester is closing the old ammo plant and have built a new plant in Mississippi. 1000 jobs added.

The illusion of tipping seas is a meme pushed by MSM, which is the only viable element of the controller/ban outlook.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172186124

Boston Globe: "Gun licenses on the rise in Mass.; 7.8% increase seen" (+44% over 5 years)

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2016/01/27/gun-licenses-rise-mass-percent-increase-seen/mru1o8yuwM9MiMuG1GRd6O/story.html



A heartfelt plea to you and all other gun control advocates:

By all means, please continue to do what you've been doing

no sea change here.

Yup. Pretty sure I did.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1172186334#post3

It is only a matter of time until regulations will be enacted to try and reduce the amount of violence caused by firearms. The idea that nothing can or should be done because there are too many guns out there or because bad guys won't obey laws is nonsensical.

Firearms don't cause violence. You think they do or should be treated like they do, and we know they don't and will not stand for them to be treated as if they do. This is why we'll never get anywhere.



Nobody says nothing should be done, except you "lots more gun control" guys, when you say "our way or nothing" like you have for the last 20 plus years.




Now were getting to what you really object to. You lot are losing your ability to hide it. You just don't like guns, possibly to the point of hatred. That's a new one.



Well, that's what makes them bad guys. Whats the point of making them double secret bad guys, other than trying to harass the rest of us who aren't?

They are convinced that millions of Americans will somehow, someway embrace their views
any day now, in spite of empirical evidence to the contrary.

Assumptions.

"Now were getting to what you really object to. You lot are losing your ability to hide it. You just don't like guns, possibly to the point of hatred. That's a new one."

I enjoy my firearms, all 5 of them. Pistols / Rifle/Shotgun. You can check my posting history. I have never said I "hate" firearms. I have never advocated or will advocate for a total ban. I do believe that every firearm purchase private or commercial should be done thru a dealer to ensure BG checks are done. I do believe a waiting period should be in place for purchase of a firearm. I do believe mag caps should be in place. I do believe yearly registering should be mandatory. I do believe mandatory safety training should be required. This would be a PITA but I would have no problem doing it and it would be well worth it if it saved just one life.

You are right in a sense. Firearms do not "cause" violence. They do however cause violence to escalate from hurts feelings or a bloody nose to be deadly.

Nope. Going by the evidence provided is not an assumption. "Guns cause violence", "too many guns out there". "Registration". Those are the talking points of anti-gunners. If you don't want to be tied to them, don't use them.

Everyone here seen the "middling" act before, many many times, too.



And we have an anti-gun person who posts here and in the other forum who has an FFL. SO what? Theres a fine line between "I hate guns" and "My guns are Ok but everyone elses are a problem".



Whether you own guns or not, you're batting for the other team with those talking points.



Again, no. The ONLY thing that causes violence to escalate is individuals making poor choices.

...that they really don't like guns, as they are busily buying more and more of them.

The disinterested reader will note that two of those three states are heavily Democratic.

If you can't convince them that more restrictions on guns are necessary, how do you
propose to get your mooted regulations enacted in red states?

Manner that much thought DUI / DWI laws did. For decades driving drunk was viewed no big deal. Cops used to drive some of my family member home if they got pulled over and were drunk. But that public view eventually changed and driving drunk was finally viewed as the seriously deadly issue it is and tougher laws/regulations were put on the books. The same is happening with firearms. A majority of people are in favor of background checks. People are also changing their view that the 3yr old who finds a firearm in the front room and kills themselves or another is not some sort of "tragic accident" but criminal negligence.

We did not try to mitigate drunk driving by more tightly regulating or limiting alcohol or cars.

We addressed drunk driving by more diligently enforcing the existing laws and increasing the penalties for the actually dangerous, already criminal conduct of drinking and driving and devoted substantial resources to educating people on the dangers of such conduct. The focus was on the criminals and their conduct, not inanimate objects.

Most gun rights supporters would support a similar paradigm with respect to firearms, i.e., increasing the penalties for the criminal misuse of firearms and increasing funding and resources for suicide prevention, firearm safety and training, safe storage incentives, etc.

Opinion is noted.

I hope you have a nice weekend.

I hope you have a nice weekend.

You also seem not to have noticed that I have long advocated unversal background checks