American History

NNadir

(34,841 posts) Thu Oct 24, 2024, 11:01 AM Oct 24

Lincoln and Taney's great writ showdown

Considering the fact that we have a Supreme Court, stuffed, by the unprecedented (and blatantly dishonest_ abandonment of precedent by the likes of Mitch McConnell, with perjuring political hacks and bribed thugs holding the Constitution in contempt, I was reminded of the time that our greatest President confronted a virulent Supreme Court, refusing to obey the ruling of Ex Parte Merryman.

The Constitution Center has a web page devoted to the point. Lincoln and Taney’s great writ showdown

Lincoln's comment to Congress is quoted:

...Lincoln didn’t respond directly or immediately to the Ex Parte Merryman decision. Instead, he waited until a July 4th address to confront Taney at a special session of Congress.

“Soon after the first call for militia it was considered a duty to authorize the Commanding General in proper cases, according to his discretion, to suspend the privilege of the writ of habeas corpus, or, in other words, to arrest and detain without resort to the ordinary processes and forms of law such individuals as he might deem dangerous to the public safety,” Lincoln said. “This authority has purposely been exercised but very sparingly.”

Lincoln then presented his famous response to Taney. “Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken if the Government should be overthrown when it was believed that disregarding the single law would tend to preserve it?”

The President also confronted Taney’s opinion that only Congress could suspend the writ.

“Now it is insisted that Congress, and not the Executive, is vested with this power; but the Constitution itself is silent as to which or who is to exercise the power; and as the provision was plainly made for a dangerous emergency, it can not be believed the framers of the instrument intended that in every case the danger should run its course until Congress could be called together, the very assembling of which might be prevented, as was intended in this case, by the rebellion,” Lincoln argued...

I hope we do not come to having this question before us:

“Are all the laws but one to go unexecuted, and the Government itself go to pieces lest that one be violated? Even in such a case, would not the official oath be broken if the Government should be overthrown when it was believed that disregarding the single law would tend to preserve it?”

We should note that judicial review is extra-Constitutional although well established by precedent in Marbury vs. Madison. However, we have never observed in our history a highly politicized court with members openly being bribed.

Roberts will be lucky if he is not regarded by history, should honest history survive, as even worse than Taney, not that Roberts seems to give a shit about historical or other dignity.

5 replies

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Lincoln and Taney's great writ showdown (Original Post) NNadir Oct 24 OP

Lincoln did have a way with words Redleg Oct 24 #1

I thought Daniel Day Lewis's portrayal was the best "Lincoln" I ever saw. I've been an amateur Lincoln scholar for... NNadir Oct 24 #2

"Lincoln was largely self-educated." mahatmakanejeeves Oct 24 #3

He had a good "word-hoard" for a self-educated person Redleg Oct 24 #4

Along with Benjamin Franklin, inventor of the American Republic, one of the most important autodidacts ever. NNadir Oct 24 #5

Redleg

(6,246 posts)

1. Lincoln did have a way with words

Reply to NNadir (Original post)

Thu Oct 24, 2024, 12:17 PM

Oct 24

I liked Daniel Day Lewis's depiction of Lincoln in the movie Lincoln. I found his performance to be credible and quite remarkable. The issues that Lincoln faced were difficult issues indeed and he showed how a thoughtful person of integrity could address them. But remember, Donald Trump claims to be greater than both Lincoln and Washington, so such problems will be a piece of cake for him. He'll do what's right for his bank account.

NNadir

(34,841 posts)

2. I thought Daniel Day Lewis's portrayal was the best "Lincoln" I ever saw. I've been an amateur Lincoln scholar for...

Reply to Redleg (Reply #1)

Thu Oct 24, 2024, 01:03 PM

Oct 24

...a great many years, and it's funny how his eloquence fits into areas beyond his direct experience.

I once gave a lecture on the subject of plutonium which I built around his passages; I believed they fit well, his 1862 State of the Union message to Congress (which was not delivered as a speech in those times).

I often steal the locution "...last best hope..." from that extremely eloquent message to Congress.

This beautiful passage rings, in some ways at least if out of the context in which he offered it, for all times, I think:

Fellow-citizens, we can not escape history. We of this Congress and this Administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance or insignificance can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We, even we here, hold the power and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave we assure freedom to the free—honorable alike in what we give and what we preserve. We shall nobly save or meanly lose the last best hope of earth. Other means may succeed; this could not fail. The way is plain, peaceful, generous, just—a way which if followed the world will forever applaud and God must forever bless.

It is, for me, one of the most beautiful passages in the English language.

mahatmakanejeeves

(61,606 posts)

3. "Lincoln was largely self-educated."

Reply to NNadir (Reply #2)

Thu Oct 24, 2024, 01:49 PM

Oct 24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln

Education and move to Illinois

Lincoln was largely self-educated. His formal schooling was from itinerant teachers. It included two short stints in Kentucky, where he learned to read, but probably not to write. In Indiana at age seven, due to farm chores, he attended school only sporadically, for a total of fewer than 12 months in aggregate by age 15. Nonetheless, he remained an avid reader and retained a lifelong interest in learning. Family, neighbors, and schoolmates recalled that his readings included the King James Bible, Aesop's Fables, John Bunyan's The Pilgrim's Progress, Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe, and The Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin. Despite being self-educated, Lincoln was the recipient of honorary degrees later in life, including an honorary Doctor of Laws from Columbia University in June 1861.

Redleg

(6,246 posts)

4. He had a good "word-hoard" for a self-educated person

Reply to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 24, 2024, 02:06 PM

Oct 24

I borrowed word-hoard from Beowulf, which I first read at age 3. Just kidding. Age 15. But I still haven't finished Moby Dick after taking a break from reading it back in A.P. English Lit class in 1982. I suppose I will have to start again from the beginning when I finally do get around to reading it.

NNadir

(34,841 posts)

5. Along with Benjamin Franklin, inventor of the American Republic, one of the most important autodidacts ever.

Reply to mahatmakanejeeves (Reply #3)

Thu Oct 24, 2024, 02:19 PM

Oct 24

Historians often muse whence that most powerful intellect of Lincoln came. His background was far more limited than Franklin's. I certainly can't fathom it.

I pride myself on autodidacticism and it is the only thing I want my sons, both of whom are autodidacts beyond their formal education, to remember about me. I don't know when that attitude in my own life started, but as I was interested in Lincoln as a child, prehaps that was the inspiration.

It is, I think, the most powerful legacy by personal example that Lincoln leaves for us, that we can find things out for ourselves if we embrace the search with passion and diligence. I also think that another is that as one finds things out, one can change one's mind.

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