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mopinko

(72,000 posts)
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 01:35 PM Jan 2012

"hot manure" and composting paper

so, i am planning to get some chickens. a fair number, maybe 2 dozen. i am looking forward to all that free fertilizer, but i know you cannot use it right away. it is too "hot". now, i am not sure exactly what that means. is it ammonia? or what? can you neutralize it with anything? wood ash? (always looking for good ways to use my fireplace ash. soil is already too high ph)
i do some vermiculture already, and they recommend starting beds of newspaper. i use the poopie paper from the birdcages. (have several birds, including a little flock of budgies) the worms love this stuff.
so, my thought is that if i use newspaper in the chicken coop, it would compost up pretty quickly, with or without worms. back in the day there were all sorts of heavy metals and all in ink. it is my understanding that osha regs changed that.
thoughts?

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Curmudgeoness

(18,219 posts)
1. Newspaper is great in composting anymore.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 01:57 PM
Jan 2012

All the inks are now free of the heavy metals from the past. It used to be that the colored inks were the big problems, but my understanding is that they are now mostly vegetable based inks and are safe for composting and using in the garden. I shred newspaper and put it in the compost pile all the time.

As to how long you have to let the chicken poop mellow before use in a garden, I can't help you. Any manure from any source is now suitable to put directly in a garden. Just be careful handling and cleaning those papers with chicken poop on them. Inhaling the dust that comes from dried bird droppings is not healthy.

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
2. Yes, its high in urea, that's why it burns.
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 04:13 PM
Jan 2012

It will produce ammonia under the right conditions, which is why you need to make sure you have some airflow in the coop during all but the coldest nights, so it doesn't build up to dangerous levels.

It's like any fertilizer, you can use it immediately IN THE PROPER AMOUNTS. Too much, and you'll fry things, though.

If you're using a litter in the coop/pen, such as shredded newspaper, straw, or leaves, the birds will do an excellent job on their own turning the litter on a regular basis and mixing the droppings into it. If its kept dry, it doesn't do much of anything, just sits there, waiting until it get moist enough to react (probably needs a certain moisture content to allow microbes to survive in it).

Moist litter will break down pretty quickly -- on average, I'd say its generally safe to spread and use in the garden in about 30 to 45 days after you begin composting it. That will depend upon the conditions -- warmer and wetter it is, faster it breaks down, just like any compost.

I use oak leaves for the most part as litter in my bird pens -- I find that they make a great litter - they last longer and stay "fluffy" compared to straw, even when they get wet. And, of course, they're free for the gathering in the autumn and again in early spring along the curbsides on trash day. If I don't have oak leaves, I use straw, but the oak leaves do a MUCH better job of keeping down odors in the warm months -- I think it must be the tannic acid in the oak leaves. The only down side I've found to oak leaves is that the tannins stain white feathers a brown over time, the same way that tea can stain a white table linen. But that comes out in the moult.

Something that is interesting in the winter is the fact that the waterfowl make their own "hotbed" because they are naturally more "moist" both in the droppings and in the amount of water they splash around the pen. The moisture level in the waterfowl pens is enough that the litter decomposes and creates a gentle heat. The "upland" birds I keep - chickens, turkeys, Japanese quail, and Chukars, don't have this effect -- their droppings are dry, the litter stays dry, and doesn't begin to heat up until I clean it out of the pens and compost it by adding moisture.

I use shredded paper in the nesting boxes, but I don't get enough of it to use as a general litter. I shred up my junk mail, etc. to get that, and I know that no one is going to piece that back together to get a credit card number after its been in the chicken boxes.

I use the "deep litter" method where I just keep adding new on top to keep it clean, until it gets too much, then I rake the entire thing out and start fresh -- I try to do that about once every 4 to 6 weeks during the warm months, and then it goes from mid-late November until about late March/early April without a cleanout because its just not practical in the winter.

When I clean it out, I do different things with it. Some of it goes immediately around large trees and shrubs, where the risk of burning them is minimal -- still being careful not to put TOO much on, of course, as anything can burn in excess. Some of it goes on vegetable and flower beds at the "off times" -- first thing in the spring, last thing in the fall, or during fallow periods in mid summer, so that it can sit for at least about a month before a new crop goes in.

Hope this helps. Enjoy poultry keeping.

mopinko

(72,000 posts)
4. i was figuring something like your "deep litter" method
Sun Jan 22, 2012, 08:53 PM
Jan 2012

would work with chickens. i am planning on a tractor for them, mostly, but over winter they will likely be enclosed. not too many oak leaves where i am, but i sure do grab the bags of leaves people put out. i will try them out.

i am really looking forward to the chickens, and maybe a goose or 2.
i have pet birds now, and have raised a few budgies. i have a couple chicken expert friends. i think i am ready for it.
thanks.

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
6. In moderation, plants grow.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:44 AM
Jan 2012

Like I said above, it is like any other other fertilizer. Use the right amount, and its fine, use too much, and you damage or even kill plants. The devil in the details on this one is that its hard to judge how much to use, especially when its mixed with litter (straw, sawdust, leaves, whatever). I think that's one reason why people like to wait until its at least partially composted, because bacteria have then "fixed" the nitrogen into forms that are more slowly absorbed, and therefore there isn't quite as much danger of frying plants.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
11. Thank you. I have two experience with this type of manure. When I was small I got to ride on the
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:27 PM
Jan 2012

bench of the manure spreader as my grandfather drove the horse over the fields after cleaning out the barns. Doesn't sound like much but once in a while he would let his 5 year old grandchild drive. That manure was never composted but it was not thick either.

Today my s-i-l cleans out his chicken house and dumps it on the garden when he tills it. So far the plants are growing. We live in a cold climate so composting is not easy.

 

HopeHoops

(47,675 posts)
5. Newspaper is fine. Just be sure the compost is covered.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 08:30 AM
Jan 2012

There are critters that love chicken shit. Go figure. Dogs eat cat box crunchies and I'll never figure that one out. Add lime or potash each time you put in the droppings - not a lot, just enough to stabilize it. The worms will go through it in no time. And yes, it is ammonia that needs to air out. Most of it will evaporate but the pH will still be high. If you have a healthy compost bin, it should adjust to about 7.2 over time - on its own.

DO NOT FORGET THE EGG SHELLS AND COFFEE GROUNDS!!!! They're both great for the heap and usually thrown out.

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
7. Feed the eggshells back to the birds.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:45 AM
Jan 2012

Layers need a lot of calcium to keep the shells strong. I nuke my eggshells until crispy, powder in a coffee grinder or food processor, and feed them right back to the chickens.

 

HopeHoops

(47,675 posts)
8. I don't own chickens, but that is a great idea. They steal calcium from their own bones.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 10:52 AM
Jan 2012

Yeah, most people don't know that, but birds will sacrifice their own bone matter to build egg shells.

Denninmi

(6,581 posts)
9. I can tell in a day or two when they run out of crushed oyster shell in their dispenser.
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 12:59 PM
Jan 2012

I start getting eggs with tissue thin shells that break when I try to pick them up. Means its time for a refill on the oyster shells. I don't get enough egg shells to use those an exclusive source, those are more just a "well, can't waste them, so might as well use them" kind of thing for me.




mopinko

(72,000 posts)
10. people do, too. suspect most critters are that way. in the old days
Mon Jan 23, 2012, 01:09 PM
Jan 2012

they used to say 'a tooth for every child'. my mom lost most of hers after 7 kids.

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