I thank heavens daily for having returned from the deep South to Colorado where fleas and ticks are far far less a problem-- of course the fleas we do have can carry plague, so there is that.... We have our West Nile Virus-infected mosquitoes for sure, but gratefully far less other arthropod nuisances.

Good luck.

I've used diatomeous earth (DE) inside with success. I could see how it would be difficult to use on acreage. I would worry about my animals inhaling it too. I wonder if you could smother them? Some kind of organic oil product. I doubt if your animals would want to eat it. I don't know how or if it would sink into the water table.

it works fabulously in the house. I also used it in place of garden lime for my tomatoes this year. It turns out I can only seem to get it in 50# bags, but at $29 a bag, it's certainly cheap enough. A little dab'll do ya for any application. You should see my tomatoes this year -- they're gorgeous, blight-free, strong monsters! I'm sold on DE as a readily absorbable, natural source of calcium. I know quite a few people who use it as a source of calcium. I'm not quite ready to go that far with it; I figure there will be plenty of calcium in the tomatoes I'm bringing in.

Now, on to how to apply to the yard. DE is remarkably fine, like cornstarch. Walking about with a sock to shake out dust like you can do inside just isn't practical in a 2-1/2 acre space. Typical spreaders like for lawn chemistry (shudder) is built for bigazz granulated stuff. Suspending with something like volck and attempting to spray with a typical hose sprayer isn't much better. Hose sprayers aren't made for dispensing that kind of suspension (the innards tend to clog) and it's a real beeyotch trying to drag enough hose to reach every corner of the yard. Even if I do, getting "enough" of anything down to do an effective job is still a challenge.

Yeah, I've kinda stepped in deep here haven't I, heh

I have a notion to contact my Deere dealer tomorrow to see if they have something that might work to keep DE suspended and spread it. There is a tow-behind sprayer my ZTR can tow for about $250. The challenge would be to figure out a rate and how to keep the DE suspended long enough to get it on the ground. The $250 would hurt like hell on the budget I'm on (my partner is disabled, so our money is tight) but that would be a one-time expense. At $30/50# of DE, that comes pretty darn cheap thereafter for effective relief.

That's only one option, I'm sure. I want to think this all through very carefully. With my tight budget and limited time (my job requires a 60-mile trip each way through the week), I kinda have to get this as right as can be done, all with as little harm to the environment or my furkids as possible.

Nematodes are expensive from what you say they cost, and that is not a quick solution. That is a slow process for them to kill off fleas, so you would not get quick results anyways. And it is possible that a hard winter would kill off many of the fleas, if you get one. Are you living in an area where you might have a winter kill-off? This was a bad year in my area because our winter was too mild to do significant damage to the population of fleas.

At this time of year, I would try to determine if certain areas of your property are more infested than others, and treat these areas as you have been doing. With all the wild animals in your area, you will never be able to get rid of the fleas, but if there are some places where they are worse, that is where I would concentrate, and maybe where you can use nematodes. Over the years, the nematodes would probably spread. And of course, treat the pets with Revolution or Advantage.

there are no quick or easy solutions. We've tried the completely natural and as much mainstream as we're willing to risk. The latest was BioSpot (similar to Advantage). The effectiveness seems to be about three good days and you can not treat more than once a month. I am absolutely convinced (due to the symptoms) that Advantage killed two of my dogs. Again, after the results of the posts, my vet finally had to agree. My current vet recommended an oral, but after reading about the lethargy, loss of appetite, and a myriad of other symptoms, then the marked increase in mortality in groups receiving it, I had to politely decline that particular option. He and I are still looking for something that will do. Thank heaven I have a vet who really cares and is willing to help research. I try to read everything I can and keep an open mind until I've exhausted everything that looks like science.

It's a lot of work, but if you care, you'll do it, yannow?

We're located in north-central NC, just south of Danville, VA. We've had very mild winters the last two and this winter is slated to be mild and wet as well. It's doubtful we'll have any relief from an extended freeze.

This summer has been by far the worst. With the explosion of rabbits we've had an explosion of fleas. I did break down and use permethrin in the blackberry thickets where rabbits are most prone to hide out (until the dogs have their fun in chasing them to the fenceline). As much as it pained me to use strong chemistry (or anything made by Syngenta, period) my dogs come first. I treated again in seven days (just at the hatch cycle). The effect was almost nil.

So far DE has been the most effective inside. It's just been a bear to figure out some kind of way to spread it effectively outside.

Unless there's something better that I could actually manage. I'm up against a few things: I'm 55, not in the greatest of shape, my job is an hour and a half drive each way, my partner is disabled, so my time is kinda taken up. I'm not complaining at all; it's just how life shaped up. Funny how things turn out not at all the way you envisaged when you were younger (insert wry smile emoticon here).

Thanks for the rejoinder and keeping the thread kicked. Between all of us, we'll get it figured out yet

Did I mention I have herding dogs: Guineas absolutely do not appreciate being herded LOL

Guineas are fabulous flea-eradicators and watchdogs. Completely organic; their eggs are small, but rich and nutritious; they'll do fine on the dinner table if you decide (I'd rather have them as flea-gitters and watchdogs); and I just like them. They're so darned ugly they're cute!

Sadly, guineas and herding dogs just don't mix.

I wonder if you could find a way to partition off a part of the property at a time and let the Guinea hens have free rein away from the dogs. A partition that can be moved around. I have seen a hen house on wheels to be easily moved for free range chickens. All you need besides that is a way to fence in the hens' area. I love this on so many levels.

As to flea treatments on your dogs, my vet has changed all animals on flea treatments to Revolution. He said that this product has the best results of all the treatments he has seen, plus it also will treat for other parasites (I believe even heartworm, but since I have a cat, I didn't pay enough attention). I have not researched it, but I am using it for the past 2 years with no ill effects.

We found out that guineas can make it over an 8' enclosure. Chickens can't, so partitioning off my garden space would be pretty easy. It's 60'x90', so I can divvy into 3's and let the girls have a third each year and the dogs can't molest them. Putting 10' high fence around the yard part of the property, then divisions within that is just cost-prohibitive. The panther and they coyotes have already gotten all but two of my neighbor's guinea flock that started out at 20.

I didn't realize how big 2-1/2 acres was until I began to mow it LOL. When we took over this place, there was no fence at all and what there was of yard was 3' high in weeds. I took it back with a push mower a section at a time. For the first year, I'd start mowing at one end of the yard as quickly as I got home, push like a maniac until dark, come in, eat supper, shower and flop exhausted into bed. I'd spend all weekend mowing. At the end of the week, I'd have to start all over from jump the next day.

It's bigger than ya think. Shoot, it was bigger than I thought when I bought it. There's six more acres of woods needing attention. It has taken me five years just to get a handle on the immediate grounds. I'll get to the woods when I get a handle on the fleas. I'm not the young strapping studlet I used to think I was heh

I am late 50's and I don't have it in me to do as much as I used to at all. But I still try. Sorry about the panther/coyote problem and suggesting hens---sounds like a recipe for disaster. I like that idea, but I am not sure I could deal with the aftermath of an attack. I wasn't thinking of that, but it sucks.

I wish you luck with the flea problem. Wish I had more to offer.

I'm betting there will probably be a suggestion or an idea I haven't thought of somewhere. Multiple brains working on it are far better than one -- and my one is gettin' kinda tattered!

We'll keep trying. Thanks for pitching in. I do appreciate it.

Couldn't resist. No ideas for you.

Peppermint soAps kill fleas in a bath. Can they be used for lawns?

The guinea hens is a good idea. Is there a way you can get some temporary fencing and set it up so the dogs can't get at the hens? I've seen this temporary chain link fencing that construction companies put up. Google Image "temporary chain link fence." You could rotate the fence around and hey, you might not get 100% relief but it might be pretty high, like 90!

I buy fresh eggs every week or two from a lady who has both dogs and chickens. She has a set up that's permanent, but her dogs, one a pit bull, do co-exist nicely with the birds.

The dispersion machine is also a cool idea. I hope you can find something that will do that because I, too, have had great success with DE.

I have been fighting fleas for over a decade now. My environment isn't quite as wild as yours, but pretty comparable. I am surrounded by woods and we have a lot of deer and other small wildlife. I have one cat that goes in and out, but my other two cats go out on enclosed cat walks, thus they can still get fleas. I used those flea prevention things like you mention and haven't had a problem with my cats having any reaction. I only use it in the summer, also, even though the cats go out all year.

For something like three or four years straight, I tried to get the nematodes going but after all that expense and effort, I don't notice anything. My neighbors did it, too. Maybe the nematodes are out there doing something, but I've never seen any results from it. It's a lot of work and effort, so this is a very "iffy" possibility.

There's a product called "Mosquito Barrier" that I learned about from a fellow DU-er. It is also effective for fleas, and it is a natural product. It is based on garlic. I think you should check this out. It is not terribly expensive and could really work for you.

Link.
http://www.mosquitobarrier.com/

Now I have some advice for any bites. Get the generic equivalent of the Benadryl gel and a few boxes of those circular Curad bandages. As soon as someone gets a bite, put the gel on it. Let it dry, and then put on a Curad circular bandage. This keeps the person bitten from scratching the bite. It works so well in helping get over bites faster. Inexpensive, too!

Around here, I don't dare go outside without a mosquito repellent, which of course, also repels fleas. I minimize the amount I need to put on by wearing long trousers, thus leaving only my arms for the repellent.

Most of the time I can get away with this Avon product, but when it's the height of the summer, l have to use that Deep Woods stuff.

Finally, I want to give you a big hug for rescuing those herder dogs.


Cher

Herders are so darn smart!! They question every bit of training so they make you think your rationale and methods through very carefully. We use all-positive, no-aversive methods. We've had a couple of real damaged cases to work with. Encouragement and emotional support are key.

The down-side is that herders were derived from dogs having a strong prey-drive. That prey drive has been redirected to gather rather than to slay, though I will admit the occasional bunny meets misfortune. They are still dogs, after all. (They also get regular wormer!)

That brings me to the guineas. Our kids' job (since we don't have sheep) is to protect the gardens (part of our "butter and egg" money and part of how we're able to eat at all) by running bunnies and squirrels away. They're generally not inclined to touch, just run them. So far, a couple of bunnies and one of the neighbor's guineas met with misfortune. I had to go apologize about the guinea.

Since guineas can make an 8' fence (chickens can be contained in 6) keeping hyper herders and independent-minded guineas who will go wherever they please separated no matter how I slice it seems to be cost prohibitive.

You've got me thinking though. I wonder if it would be possible to make a "guinea tractor" kinda like a chicken tractor. If it's not too heavy, or I could put it on workable wheels, make it roomy enough to make having enough guineas worthwhile, maybe I could pull it around with the lawn tractor.

Think such a thing could work?

I've found it to be a miracle repellent for all kinds of pestiferous beasties. It's super-concentrated, so you mix about one capful into a standard spray bottle of water. One bottle lasts forever and will keep in the fridge for over a year.

I've also heard of giving garlic to dogs to repel fleas, though you should of course check w/your vet before adding anything to their diet.

Really does help keep mosquitoes and biting flies/gnats off them. Our vet advised against fresh garlic (I knew that anyway), but they seem to enjoy the taste on kibbles. I have tried garlic drops designed for the water bowl. They were horrified I'd do such a thing and refused to touch it. I repented of that quickly.

That said, dragging 200' of hose to attempt to cover an entire 2-1/2 acres just isn't practical. For me, it's barely physically possible. I'll admit the $84/five acres/one whole season price tag is appealing. That's about the least expensive option of any of them. It'd be worth it to hire a kid to come help me drag hoses around for a day. I guess the real question is finding a truly effective spraying mechanism that gets "enough" down, and enough to persist as advertised. This is definitely in the hopper to investigate further.

I really wanted guinesfowl to work. I think they're just so cool. The noise doesn't bother me and they're the best flea and tick getters ever. Between my hyper kids wanting to herd something and the number of predators we've got around here, from what I'm turning up in research it's just not worth it after all.

if a backpack sprayer and a willling kid might be the answer for you?

Something like this?:
http://www.amazon.com/Chapin-61800-Professional-Backpack-Sprayer/dp/B000UEMJ3W/ref=pd_sbs_lg_6

(Note: this is just the first one that came up in a Google search, so you might find a better deal or decide on a smaller model.)

Keep us posted.

A sprayer that mounts on the ZTR mower and a tow-behind drop-spreader that can handle something as fine as DE. Two and a half acres doesn't seem like a lot until you start trying to spray or spread something on the whole thing. Then it gets REALLY big lol!

John Deere has a spreader that will do DE, but it's $199. There's a comparable store brand that's just as sturdy and has a better adjustment for $139. I think I'm going that way.

I'll keep y'all posted!

and these (some may be toxic to pets, do your homework)

Catnip – Also repels cockroaches. A perennial herb. Has an ability to attract domestic North American cats, causing the feline to hallucinate.

Lavender – Also repels mosquitoes and moths. Non-toxic to pets.

Eucalyptus – A flowering tree of the myrtle family.

Pennyroyal – Also known as Fleabane due to its use as a flea repellent for centuries. Was the single most used herb to fight the plague.

Rosemary – Also repels mosquitoes and gnats.

Peppermint – A hybrid mint, crossed with the watermint and spearmint.

Garlic – Also said to repel rabbits and moles.

Citronella – Also repels mosquitoes. Similar to Lemmongrass, which is a relation.

Camomile – Annual herb of the daisy family.

Sage – A dense, upright bush about 2 to 3 feet in height. It is the largest plant in the mint family.

Rue – Widely used in butterfly gardens as a larval plant, this strongly scented evergreen subshrub’s oil can leave blisters on the skin in hot weather.

Lemmongrass – Lemon scented. Also repels mosquitoes.

Fleawort – A European species with yellow daisy-like flowers. Its seeds are used for medical purposes.

Wormwood – An attractive silvery foliage. Its leaves have been used in medicines and such beverages as adsinthe.

Sweet Bay – A large aromatic evergreen shrub. Its leaves have been used as the main flavor ingredient in American-style spaghetti sauce.

Tansy – A flowering plant with finely divided compound leaves and yellow, button-like flowers.

Lemonbalm (another mint family member) seems to be doing well. The spearmint hasn't really taken off yet, but I've got one good patch.

I had wonderful luck with four o'clocks one year and one year only. After that I couldn't get them to come up. Man, those are a lovely flower and they smell SO WONDERFUL. They attract pollenators and hummers but they are positively lethal to japanese beetles who can't seem to resist them. I've never seen so many dead japanese beetles in all my life as under the one beautiful (70-foot!) row of four o'clocks I managed to get going. After that, they never would come up again.

The ground I'm now calling my yard (a bit tongue in cheek, I suppose) had been a tobacco field for some 250 years. When it became a plot for a house about 20 years ago, the idiots that attempted to smooth it simply pushed the topsoil off and shoved most of it down the hill. What was left is lumpy, bumpy, ill-graded, not leveled in any way, and a definite PITA to get anything to grow -- including grass. It has taken five years to establish something like a yard from native grasses. Something besides weeds, that is.

Trying to do this something like organically has been quite a bit more of a challenge. There are plenty of horse farms and dairy barns around, but a couple of years ago the motor in my pickup blew, so hauling poop to shore up the fertility of the garden hasn't been an option. (Poop is free if you haul it.) My husbear would wring my neck I'm sure if I even joked about bringing cowpoop home in the family car

We're noodling over the idea of a guinea tractor. That might could work. Guineapoo is as good a fertilizer as chickenpoo and would do my poor yard and endless amount of good. Along with eradicating fleas, it sounds like a win/win.

I need to read everything I can about guineas, chicken tractors, etc alongside this thread.

We priced fleabane seed. That sounds like another option. Not cheap but a durnsight cheaper than treating after the fact. I like.