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erronis

(24,821 posts)
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 06:31 PM Yesterday

At 85 and healthy? Why more medicine may do more harm

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2026-06-healthy-medicine.html
by James H. Stein, MD



I don't think I've seen this perspective before. As I'm slowly approaching my actuarial EOL, this has a lot of relevance.

When a patient has made it to 85 years old in reasonable health, their instinct--and often their physician's--is to redouble prevention efforts, optimize every number and close every gap. I want to argue the opposite.

If you have made it to 85 and are healthy and living independently, you have won the game of life. The appropriate response is not more medicine. It is recognizing what got you there and being very careful not to break it. We have precious few interventions that can reliably extend an 85-year-old's lifespan (let alone their health span) but an infinite number of ways we can mess it up.

What winning the game actually means

Average life expectancy at birth in the United States is roughly 78 years. A healthy 85-year-old has outlived that mark by nearly a decade, and someone born in 1940, when life expectancy at birth was closer to 63 years, has outlived what the actuarial tables of their birth year would have predicted by more than two decades.

Something is working, likely their genetics and lifestyle behaviors, acting together with a huge dose of good fortune, none of which we fully understand. That humility should inform everything that follows. This is a patient who succeeded at survival--not one who failed prevention--and interventions calibrated for a 58-year-old in a randomized clinical trial do not apply to them in any straightforward way.

. . .
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
At 85 and healthy? Why more medicine may do more harm (Original Post) erronis Yesterday OP
"... there is a specific harm in converting a healthy older adult into a medical project." Pinback Yesterday #1
My goal is to be on no medications bamagal62 22 hrs ago #14
Good for you! erronis 22 hrs ago #16
I think longevity is like diarrhea, it runs in your genes. multigraincracker Yesterday #2
My mom's side of the family bamagal62 22 hrs ago #8
Moving is key. bamagal62 22 hrs ago #12
Just because I'm watching it and it fits with your comment - look up "Perfect Days" erronis 22 hrs ago #17
I need to watch. bamagal62 22 hrs ago #21
I'm 76 and run 3 to 5 miles 3 to 4 days a week. multigraincracker 22 hrs ago #22
Saw a film about Japanese heart health. multigraincracker 22 hrs ago #24
Natto? bamagal62 22 hrs ago #26
I eat all kinds of fermented food and drinks. multigraincracker 21 hrs ago #27
You should suss out bamagal62 20 hrs ago #33
Co-ops frequently sell natto. And miso and other fermented products. erronis 10 hrs ago #34
If it's not broken... ultralite001 23 hrs ago #3
Wow - that took me back at least 60 years. erronis 23 hrs ago #4
Omg cate94 22 hrs ago #15
I'm blessed with ADHD. multigraincracker 21 hrs ago #28
I would argue that the age should be 75 not 85. kellytore 23 hrs ago #5
At my last annual checkup, my young doctor said, Pinback 23 hrs ago #6
Same here. Just glad I went to the eye doctor. multigraincracker 21 hrs ago #29
My uncle died bamagal62 22 hrs ago #9
I'm very sorry to hear that. It can happen at any age, but we get a lot of them as we age. erronis 22 hrs ago #18
I will say this was many years ago before it became routine. bamagal62 22 hrs ago #23
A thought provoking OP..... anciano 22 hrs ago #7
I so agree! bamagal62 22 hrs ago #10
And when the opponent flips over his winning card. erronis 22 hrs ago #11
The cards are shuffled randomly. You only multigraincracker 20 hrs ago #30
I admit to HEAVY confirmation bias in favor of the article... TygrBright 22 hrs ago #13
I like your philosophy. erronis 22 hrs ago #20
I'd rather deal with the pain than take pain pills. multigraincracker 20 hrs ago #31
I'm comfortable with my mortality. Dr. T 22 hrs ago #19
Regarding colonoscopy, I've wondered whether the damage to the microbiome from the prep... lostnfound 22 hrs ago #25
I never minded getting one. My brother multigraincracker 20 hrs ago #32

Pinback

(13,694 posts)
1. "... there is a specific harm in converting a healthy older adult into a medical project."
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 07:32 PM
Yesterday

Great article. As someone who doesn’t shun doctors but tries to maintain good health by way of lifestyle factors rather than pharmaceuticals, I appreciate this perspective.

bamagal62

(4,635 posts)
14. My goal is to be on no medications
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:01 PM
22 hrs ago

Unless absolutely necessary. I’m 64 and take no meds. I walk A LOT. I chose to walk to my eye doctor appointment today. 2 miles there and 2 miles back. I’m in Manhattan. So, I can choose to walk. Rarely do I take the subway or uber. I allow time to walk where I’m going.

erronis

(24,821 posts)
16. Good for you!
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:12 PM
22 hrs ago

I hope you don't get one of those diseases like I have (leukemia) that showed up in my 60s.

It's said that if nothing else gets you, cancer will.

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
2. I think longevity is like diarrhea, it runs in your genes.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 07:40 PM
Yesterday

Both my parents lived to 90. Figure that might be me. All my doctors prescribe the same thing, keep moving.

bamagal62

(4,635 posts)
8. My mom's side of the family
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:52 PM
22 hrs ago

Live long lives. She’s 95. Her mom lived until 93. Her Aunt lived to 100. My Dad’s side do not live long lives. Many died in their 60s or 70s. I’m crossing my fingers I have the good ones! The fact that I look just like my mother gives me hope!

erronis

(24,821 posts)
17. Just because I'm watching it and it fits with your comment - look up "Perfect Days"
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:13 PM
22 hrs ago

Wonderful new film.

bamagal62

(4,635 posts)
21. I need to watch.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:21 PM
22 hrs ago

I lived in Tokyo for 2 years. One of my favorite places!
We can learn a lot from their lifestyle.

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
22. I'm 76 and run 3 to 5 miles 3 to 4 days a week.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:23 PM
22 hrs ago

Not fast, just steady. My usual pulse was 45bpm. One day it got down to 23bpm. Now have a pacemaker that kicks it up to 60. My doctor says I have a Senior Athlete heart.
But you never know, might get run over by a school bus.

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
24. Saw a film about Japanese heart health.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:33 PM
22 hrs ago

Study showed they smoke and drink more than most but have the healthiest heart because they some kind of fermented soy beans that cleans the plaque out of veins. They also do not suffer age related dementia. I think it was called Nattokinas. ?spelling.

bamagal62

(4,635 posts)
26. Natto?
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:37 PM
22 hrs ago

I didn’t like it. And my kids wouldn’t touch it. But, the expat kids that were born there loved it. I guess it’s kind of like vegemite, an acquired taste!

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
27. I eat all kinds of fermented food and drinks.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 10:31 PM
21 hrs ago

I kind of like sour taste.
Where do they buy it at? I’m going to start looking for it.
I saw a Bill Gates film about it. His father died of Alzheimer’s so he spent millions researching those things.

erronis

(24,821 posts)
34. Co-ops frequently sell natto. And miso and other fermented products.
Tue Jun 16, 2026, 09:41 AM
10 hrs ago

I also like kimchi if not too spicy. One day a cute Korean worker in a deli gave me a Christmas gift of a gallon of special kimchi with oysters - all fermented together. I don't think I finished it....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi

ultralite001

(2,774 posts)
3. If it's not broken...
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:02 PM
23 hrs ago

Don't fix it...

Here's to another healthy decade or two or three for many of us...

[free of the stresses of the Mango Mussolini]...

Now in my 7th decade, I'm thinking of learning to dance [an activity frowned upon by my recently departed partner]...
I'm also looking into singing w/ the Resistance... They contacted me overnight, so I will check it out... The garden is
beginning to produce, so that will keep me busy. I'm working on some weather coding projects... I' m wishing I had
a bike to ride...Hank, our goofy dog, just turned 3 + is a lively companion. My kids + grandkids seem to be thriving...
Music + the arts seem to sustain us all..To be so blessed astounds me each + every day...Folks here continue to
inspire + for that I thank you all...

Shall we dance???

erronis

(24,821 posts)
4. Wow - that took me back at least 60 years.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:17 PM
23 hrs ago

The songs and images from that musical are embedded.

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
28. I'm blessed with ADHD.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 10:40 PM
21 hrs ago

The HD part keeps me super busy. In my younger day I worked two jobs, had a business on the side working A full time job and took classes too.
I struggled in college and dropped out. Found a great psychiatrist that diagnosed it when I was in my late 30s. Ask if I went to college and I had but did terrible. He told me to go back and sit in the front row and I’d get a A s. I did and graduated magna cum laude.
Interesting life with lots of sympathy for others that struggle.

kellytore

(268 posts)
5. I would argue that the age should be 75 not 85.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:21 PM
23 hrs ago

I also believe many medical tests such as a colonoscopy should not be given to people in their 70's.

Pinback

(13,694 posts)
6. At my last annual checkup, my young doctor said,
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:45 PM
23 hrs ago

“Your colonoscopy next year will probably be your last one, assuming everything checks out OK.”

“Great!“ I said, and then realized I’m no longer likely to live long enough to develop colon cancer. Good news, I guess.


When I got home I realized I should have said, “I’ll be glad to get that behind me!”

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
29. Same here. Just glad I went to the eye doctor.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 10:44 PM
21 hrs ago

Caught my glaucoma early enough to save my sight.

erronis

(24,821 posts)
18. I'm very sorry to hear that. It can happen at any age, but we get a lot of them as we age.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:15 PM
22 hrs ago

bamagal62

(4,635 posts)
23. I will say this was many years ago before it became routine.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:24 PM
22 hrs ago

However, I resisted mine for years because of it. When I would tell my doctors why, they would say, ok. Finally, though, they talked me into it. But, stressed me out like you would not believe!

anciano

(2,334 posts)
7. A thought provoking OP.....
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:49 PM
22 hrs ago

I personally believe that life is like a game of cards and that it plays out according to the hand that fate deals you.

bamagal62

(4,635 posts)
10. I so agree!
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:56 PM
22 hrs ago

I had a good friend that was active, never smoked, and took great care of herself. Died of lung cancer.

erronis

(24,821 posts)
11. And when the opponent flips over his winning card.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 08:57 PM
22 hrs ago

I agree with your sentiment. We're in the game until we aren't.

TygrBright

(21,403 posts)
13. I admit to HEAVY confirmation bias in favor of the article...
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:00 PM
22 hrs ago

...which I read in its entirety.

I also have a lot of ambivalence about the modern obsession with treating every possible ache and pain as we get older.

We're getting older. Our maintenance schedule is more demanding (moderate exercise, focuse on flexibility! minimize potential opportunities for injury! moisturize that saggy skin!) and our bits and pieces are accumulating wear.

Occasional moderate pain is, in fact, NORMAL as we age. It will likely be different for each of us. Sometimes it's easily treated with mild anti-inflammatory, perhaps some focused exercise. Sometimes meditation, distraction, and bubble baths may be the best we can manage.

Of course if it becomes acute and/or persists for longer than a couple of days, it's worth looking into. But trying to treat and/or avoid every source of occasional mild to moderate pain often increases anxiety, involves medication risks, costs time and effort that may not be worth it if we can be patient and wait.

I am not a profit center for the corporate "health care" industrial complex.

insubordinately,
Bright

erronis

(24,821 posts)
20. I like your philosophy.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:19 PM
22 hrs ago

I'd like to think that aging is something to be expected. There are the good parts and the not-so-good. Pain is probably the worst, especially if it is unnecessary.

Dr. T

(794 posts)
19. I'm comfortable with my mortality.
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:17 PM
22 hrs ago

Doctors and medical science have no answers for most of my chronic ailments. Big pharma will gladly keep you alive long enough to take your last dollar.

I've known people who lived into their late 80's and 90's. Their quality of life faded significantly. So I’ll blow off my colonoscopy, drink another beer, eat another ribeye, and enjoy the ride.

lostnfound

(17,696 posts)
25. Regarding colonoscopy, I've wondered whether the damage to the microbiome from the prep...
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 09:34 PM
22 hrs ago

might be counterproductive in some cases.
Microbiome in the gut is supposed to be pretty important, they keep learning more. Of course it can be repopulated to some extent (i.e., from yogurt or kimchee etc.), but there are so many types of bacteria that contribute to human health which are not necessarily easily repopulated.

multigraincracker

(38,254 posts)
32. I never minded getting one. My brother
Mon Jun 15, 2026, 10:53 PM
20 hrs ago

never got another after the first. He spent thousands on a full body scan instead.

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