When I see the arguments here at DU regarding sexism, I tend to stay out of it and just read. A part of that is that I usually like to avoid getting into arguments. Another part is that I think the women here do a very good job of combating sexism and probably don't need my help.

But I will see what I can do.

Last edited Fri Feb 10, 2012, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

there is quiet support, that is really good too. this is NOT for everyone, lol. that is for sure.

I had a very prominent avowedly (according to him) very pro-woman DUer turn me down -- after reading his glowing tho brief pro-woman testimonial -- when I asked him via PM to jump into some of the worst of the sexist DU threads and support women that way. He was actually a little huffy about it too. "I don't have time," was his excuse, but I saw it as just that: an excuse. I didn't ask him to dominate any threads, I asked him to weigh in with at least ONE post on such threads. The strong sense I had was that he didn't want to lose his approval rating among DUers here by siding with the females.

Because men bond with each other via sexism, you see. And if he'd step into such a thead, he'd lose some of his credibility with the men.

I could be wrong, of course, but I'm asking YOU to examine your deepest of hearts to see what the real reason is that you hold back when you see women being bullied, battered, mocked and ridiculed and LOSING, and you just watch.

We women will NEVER win until we have more male allies actually stepping forward to make it clear that sexism is EVERYBODY's business and EVERYBODY's burden.

Btw, I found some really startling but heavy-duty revelations/ insights in your OP. Thanks.

I tend to avoid contentious subjects in general, not just sexism. If you were to do a search of my posts here at DU, you would find very little outside of the lounge and the mental health support group. I'm not trying to save face, I just don't like to argue. But, like I said, I will try to weigh in on this subject more.

i love your last paragraph. all while i was reading your post, i was remembering the years i have listened to you. coming to the same conclusion of your last paragraph. probably with your old name, but i guess really since '09. i wanted so much for you and i watched YOU do the work on you and take the steps YOU needed to take, so you could meet the goal, once you let it go. i have so enjoyed you over the years and i thank YOU for all you have given us.

thanks tobin, and always the best for you.

you are special.

I've told more than one person here that I'm a big fan of yours. I like what you do here.

citizens, saved the lives of men and other women that day? Yes, there were some female police and firefighters who gave up their lives. As a New Yorker, our local media reported this, but unfortunately national media never reported the FEMALE heroes of 9/11.

Some people are still living in the 19th Century and refuse to acknowledge this is the 21st Century. Women are running corporations, are in our Congress, in combat and dying in our wars, and protecting our citizens as First Responders across the country.

The fringe element like the Santorums wants to push them back into the kitchen and the nursery. No, we won't go back. This philly left the coral a long time ago.

I so get what yr saying about defensiveness, as I've seen defensive reactions on a local blog when it comes to past injustices towards our indigenous people. A lot of the attitude I saw there was the same sort of defensiveness that you talk about, which stems from having things ingrained into us since childhood and can result in the blinkers being brought down when people try to challenge those ingrained notions...

I admire your courage and your convictions.

for others to change too. Hugs!

I too am new to the feminist ideal. In my late age I am starting to become more aware of the plight of Women worldwide. I wish that I had a better clue growing up, although my Mom was a bra burning hippie that I thought was crazy! LOL! She was a good role model but I was too dumb to "get it". I feel I have wasted so much time!

I am not 100% up to par with some of the issues, but I am evolving and learning everyday. I am greatful to the Women of DU and the Women who fight everyday for Womens rights, health and well being.

I really appreciate this nice post! Thank you for sharing!

Thank you so much, Tobin S for putting your thoughts into words to share with us.

Yeah- DU does open your mind. We have the smartest bunch of people here- I have learned so much from the great minds found here.

I wish you- and your wonderful wife- much peace and love.

if you don't mind telling.

I have been on DU since summer of 2004, and I am just wondering whether I was aware of your posts back then.

When I did the name change I informed the admin or maybe a mod who informed the admin. The Droopy account still showed as open for a long time. I don't know if it still does. They just disabled the account without tombstoning it so no one would think that I had been banned.

and it was done with mod/admin's okay.

that user name, but I don't remember seeing anything overtly antifeminist or anti-women from you, so you were probably less openly chauvinistic than it seems to a more enlightened you as you look back in dismay on your previous behavior.

It is so nice when someone who has become more aware and toelrant tells others about it in a public forum. I consider it an invaluable public service, and I am really grateful for people like you!

I think that a lot of unfortuanate attitudes and behaviors are reinforced when people assume that their own unenlightened attitudes and actions are the norm rather than outliers. When those they assume are "on their side" in such matters publicly denounce their unenlightened stances, it does more to move the norm toward decency and tolerance than innumerable lectures from those who never held such beliefs.

Again, thanks for the OP post and for the info about your former DU ID.

I admire your growth. I've met a few people in my life who grew politically or religiously and it must be a challenge. Folks that had bigoted parents or religious nuts who were no longer prejudiced against other races or became Democrats or atheists.

Good on you for overcoming the discomfort and taking the leap.

"My ego would not allow me to admit to myself that I had been wrong, especially about women."

There's a life lesson we can ALL apply about the opposite sex . . .

I'm really curious.

Was it our culture in general?

Was it your church?

Was it your family?

Was it your neighbors?

Other men?

All of the above?

You know that whole patriarch thing.

I was raised going to a fundie church that taught that all women were to be subserviant to men.

As far as my family went, I think I learned by example more than anything someone told me. It was just the roles played out by my parents. I'd rather not go into details on that, but I will say that it was not an egalitarian reltionship.

Of course, other men. Just seeing what the men around me thought of women, what they said when women weren't around, reinforced the idea that men are superior. It was more of a way of being rather than a consciously thought out philosophy. I still see it in men all the time. The thought that women are equal to men seems like a foreign idea that has never occurred to them.

She was a speech therapist and my dad was a salesman.

Mixed marriage as far as religion goes, Mom is Episcopalian and Dad was an atheist.

I grew up with three brothers.

I never for one minute thought that they were superior to me in any way.

I had a rude awakening in my high school days, with boys that thought that I
should behave in certain ways.

My shock on dates, when they would reach over and take food off of my plate!
I almost famously PERFORATED one guy with my fork.

I married a guy that never tried to pigeon-hole me into a "type" of behavior.
We've been together for 25 years, and we still treat each other as equals.

My daughters demand equal footing in their relationships, too.

Poor bastards!!

Life is so much better lived out in the open, without game playing.
Your marriage will benefit from your examined attitude, and you and
your wife will THRIVE.

Isn't that they're men or women, black, white, brown, yellow, or blue, religious or atheist, or whatever...

They're just individuals.

Sometimes we encounter a behavior in someone and automatically associate that behavior with gender, race, or anything that stands out as 'different' to us. The more 'different' someone is, the easier it is to link that difference to the behavior. This creates a cycle of self-propagating perspective or 'confirmation bias'. It's very easy to wind up with generations of haters of all kinds, and very hard to break the cycle. Even when you're actually aware of it.

Good on you.