https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20231219-this-video-does-not-show-israel-bulldozing-palestinians-at-kamal-adwan-hospital-in-gaza

the hit!

CNN is not confirming the truth of the accusations in the report you linked.

Last week, they were making these accusations.:


https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20231219-this-video-does-not-show-israel-bulldozing-palestinians-at-kamal-adwan-hospital-in-gaza

According to someone who ought to know, 16.

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-778679

Second question: how many of the remaining doctors were paid employees of the Hamas government?

I would say, all of them.

CNN spoke to two senior medical staff, another doctor and a patient at the hospital, who provided corroborating testimonies of what happened. CNN also reviewed video evidence for some of the claims.

They paint a disturbing picture of how the IDF carried out the operation, as doctors were interrogated for their connections to Hamas and staff struggled to treat patients trapped inside.

The IDF says that Hamas hides terrorist infrastructure in and around civilian institutions in Gaza, such as hospitals, and that targeting them is essential as it works to eliminate Hamas from the Gaza Strip. But its operations are contentious, with humanitarian organizations saying that medical facilities in Gaza are rendered unable to provide basic services.

The most CNN would say is that the video "paints a disturbing picture".

Sometimes each even tells the truth methinks.

Looking forward to someone's future locution:

Methinks also too that truth is truth no matter who says it.

It might take years, but the truth is going to come out. IDF soldiers will likely suffer PTSD and a lot of mental illness in the years to come due their actions - just as U.S. soldiers did after VietNam and the Gulf War.

How about the medical personal who hid terrorists and hostages?

What about the UNRWA teacher who held a child hostage in his attic for 50 days? Will he also suffer from PTSD in the future?

What about the UNRWA teacher's own children who witnessed their father holding a kidnapped child prisoner? Will they suffer from PTSD?

Link to tweet

Very disturbing indeed.

Some smartass on X decides to post a10-year old video from Egypt and claims it shows Israel bulldozing live patients to death.

Ergo', the eyewitness testimony of medical staff who claim that bulldozers dug up dead bodies - is automatically and conveniently fake.

Got it.

... at a hospital that director of Kamal Adwan hospital Dr. Hamas Brigadier General Ahmed Al Kahlot says was a Hamas ‘command center’.

Sorry, but claims are not "testimony" any more than reporting that claims were made is confirmation that those claims are true.

Really important too.

But do you agree that the video on X is not proof that the medical staff/Hamas operatives are lying about what they witnessed?

Of course if you believe everyone at the hospital was Hamas, then you won't believe anything any of them have to say so your conscience is clear.

About Dr/General al-Kahlot, there is one dead man walking, either way. He must know that so I imagine he made his choice to take his chances under what must have been very "difficult" circumstances. Courtesy of Shin Bet.

His last military training, btw, was in 2010, the year he says he joined. Seems a little odd, but then who knows how Hamas runs their military?

I prefer the smilie version for next time.

From the TIMES OF ISRAEL !!! TOTALLY LEGIT MEDIA OUTLET!!

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

By Tal Schneider 8 October 2023, 3:58 pm

For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank — bringing Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group.
The idea was to prevent Abbas — or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government — from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state.
Thus, amid this bid to impair Abbas, Hamas was upgraded from a mere terror group to an organization with which Israel held indirect negotiations via Egypt, and one that was allowed to receive infusions of cash from abroad.

Hamas was also included in discussions about increasing the number of work permits Israel granted to Gazan laborers, which kept money flowing into Gaza, meaning food for families and the ability to purchase basic products.

Israeli officials said these permits, which allow Gazan laborers to earn higher salaries than they would in the enclave, were a powerful tool to help preserve calm.
-snip-

Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
-snip-


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Much, much more at the link, really interesting.

What difference does it make who they are paid by? You are implying no doctor or medical staff should be believed in anything because they work in a hospital run by their government. Absurd.

These doctors and nurses have been vetted by the IDF and allowed to remain. Is the IDF not doing the vetting properly?

Regardless, how is any of this acceptable, let alone from the "most moral army in the world?

In the words of a non-Hamas operative CHILD:

From the actual human beings in the medical profession who are paid by Hamas:



As the article states, to be considered a military target, hospitals would need to have able-bodied combatants and weaponry. Even then, there are legal and ethical constraints in the treatment of civilians.

Were there able-bodied "combatants actively fighting the IDF from the hospital before it was attacked?

Article 19 of the Geneva Convention states that “the fact that sick or wounded members of the armed forces are nursed in these hospitals, or the presence of small arms and ammunition taken from such combatants which have not yet been handed to the proper service, shall not be considered to be acts harmful to the enemy.”

I think the IDF will have a lot to answer for.

As of Dec. 19, which was... umm... 4 days ago, only one known case of the hospital's staff being interrogated. And we know the testimony CNN is referring to is more recent than a week ago... how? And we know the doctors giving the testimony were vetted..when? By whom? To what effect? Were they allowed to remain in the hospital? Certainly CNN has no clue, and neither do you! Which doesn't prevent CNN, or yourself, from painting, out of thin air (or worse, the testimony of suspected Hamas operatives), "a disturbing picture of how the IDF carried out the operation, as doctors were interrogated for their connections to Hamas". Disturbing indeed, CNN!

"The IDF says that Hamas hides terrorist infrastructure" .
No, silly! The IDF says they have a Hamas general heading the hospital who confirms Hamas hides terrorist infrastructure! And the Hamas general tells IDF he had 16 Hamas operatives in the hospital, and weapons too, not to mention stating directly that the hospital was being used for military purposes.

Unsurprisingly, at least one of the pants on fire testimonies from a suspected hospital nurse (Tanteesh, the nurse) had already been debunked, with CNN somehow managing to remain oblivious of it. Silly them! The other actual human being doctors quoted in the article are also suspected of being the actual Hamas operatives. And theirs is the testimony CNN is relying on, unconfirmed by anyone else! Silly CNN!

As far as a hospital becoming a military target, CNN is reporting on the testimony that guns belonging to able-bodied "security guards" were present inside the hospital. Even if you doubt the testimony of the Hamas general directly stating it to be the case, this testimony alone confirms that able-bodied non-medical personnel were present at the hospital, making it a military target.

Which brings us to Rule 28 of International Humanitarian Law:

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule28#:~:text=State%20practice%20establishes%20the%20exception%20under%20customary%20international,Geneva%20Conventions%20and%20in%20both%20Additional%20Protocols.%20
Notwithstanding Article 19 of the 4th Geneva convention, I would venture a wild guess that a hospital run by Hamas general with 16 Hamas operatives on his staff is outside of the hospital's humanitarian function and is harmful to the enemy even if the combatants are not armed, no? Being a military target is not the only way for a hospital to lose its protections. Silly CNN, they can't even look up the shit that any joe shmoe on DU has easy access to!

I think CNN has a lot to answer for.

The better question would be why would the IDF allow 5 "Hamas operatives" masquerading as doctors and a few others as nurses to stay, while arresting and removing 70 other staff to an undisclosed location on December 12th? Another colossal failure of intelligence? Or maybe they were actually vetted and found to be "innocent".

So here are doctors and nurses vetted by the IDF and a presumably unvetted child, all saying terrible things were done. Why exactly would you not believe them? Serious question.

And if those doctors are suspected of being actual Hamas operatives as you claim (you must have insider knowledge or be more informed as I had not heard that) then why are they still running free at the hospital, talking to CNN and apparently endangering IDF soldiers? Though I suspect after the CNN interview they will soon also be at undisclosed locations making "confessions" after a week or so as "guests" of Shin Bet.

Peace.

all I have to say is Thank you! And Duh! The CNN report establishes that as of Dec 12, the confessed Hamas general was not yet in custody. In the same CNN article, Dr. Abu Safia reported "heaving bombing on Tuesday (Dec 12) followed by the arrival of Israeli troops". If he and CNN are to be believed, no vetting could have possibly occurred before Dec 13.

The article in the OP rehashes virtually all the allegations from Dec 13, made by the UNVETTED personnel of the hospital, and the presumably unvetted child. Nothing that occurred after that date. We now know that 16 of the personnel in the hospital were Hamas operatives, and at least one of them lied her ass off (https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/truth-or-fake/20231219-this-video-does-not-show-israel-bulldozing-palestinians-at-kamal-adwan-hospital-in-gaza).

So you have no faintest idea how many of the "doctors" whose testimony appeared in any of the CNN articles were vetted, or when, or whether they were vetted at all. What you know for sure is that none of them were vetted at the time they gave theor testimonies.

So let's all hold our hands together and cry "war crimes"! Because anything that happens in the Gaza hospitals has nothing to do with Hamas and Israel's fault is not to be questioned under any circumstances... Oh, and because a dog biting a person in the hospital, verified or not, is defined as a war crime by the International Criminal Court.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/middleeast/gaza-kamal-adwan-hospital-doctors-idf-intl/index.html


https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-778679

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Fadi Alwhidifa/Reuters