It's a friggin' miracle!

Looks like we voted for the wrong spouse.

And Arafat fucked him.

The whole conflict is bullshit aimed at Israel and the West.

What other refugee group exists almost 70 years after the fact?

NONE.

if Jews weren't a prolific constituency of the Democratic Party. Probably they don't realize there'd be even fewer house seats for Dems and Senators, Govs, etc. too.

Maybe the anti-Israel left should go join the British Labour Party.

I wonder how some of these types would feel if say, Steve Israel, a Dem rep. for 16 years, and is now retiring (prob due to the far-left wanting to oust him) is replaced by Jack Martins as punishment for the anti-Israel sentiment and Islamism-splaining that clearly has erupted in the party?

Oh Ericson, you know so little about the way American politics works. Neither party gives a flying shit about the 1.7% of the country that is in some degree Jewish.

No, it's about the 77% of the US that is Christian. Jesus needs his landing strip, after all. Among other weird apocalyptic fantasies involving Israel found within American christendom.

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

The end times stuff only appeals to evangelical xtians and the vast majority of them are republicans.

As for Dems, Israel is seen as a modern liberal success story, that's where most of the support on the mainstream left stems from, that and the commitment American Jews have to Democratic party values like justice, inclusion, compassion and a social safety net.

I left the White House broke. and dead! plus dead broke! Just once I'd like to hear, "It was actually not too hard and when I finished I was in good shape..."

But no-even after a life of luxury beyond the imaginings of the average American the narrative never changes-"I was born and raised down in Alabama
On a farm way back up in the woods
I was so ragged that folks used to call me Patches
Mama used to tease me about it
'Cause deep down inside she was hurt
'Cause she'd done all he could....."

I hope the lying prick chokes to death on it.

But the economic improvements under his watch is not one of them.

Fuck'im.

He has expressed regret about the three strikes bill, little late imo.

The dem leaders have embraced free trade unfortunately.

Last edited Sat May 14, 2016, 08:23 AM - Edit history (1)

and if they'd accepted the "generous" offers they were given, things could've been even worse than now.

The offer from Barak was nothing but a scam:
2000 Camp David Summit: Territory
Source: Wikipedia

what the Parameters could have looked like. We still don't know which version of the West Bank area that was used - the Israeli version is about 95% of the Palestinian one, and it would've given Israel an extra 5% by default with no land swaps.

On top of that, Israel accepted the Clinton Parameters, but with 20 pages of objections. The interpretation of what that map would look like looks different altogether, with the West Bank cut up in 3 isolated areas and no Palestinian access to the Jordan River.

The Clinton Parameters didn't come with a map, which is a bit strange - I don't know of any other zoning / partition proposal that didn't come with a map.

You might want to consider expanding beyond Wikipedia for your information.

Israel did not accept the Clinton Parameters "with 20 pages of objections". Go to the source material that Wikipedia used to construct this paragraph. It comes from an interview with Ehud Barak conducted by Ari Shavit of Ha'aretz in September of 2002.

If you actually read the interview (which I'm assuming you haven't), you will note that Barak says that he accepted the parameters when they were proposed by Clinton, and that Arafat did not. The 20-page document was sent later, after Arafat had rejected the parameters as a basis for negotiation.

"The true story of Camp David was that for the first time in the history of the conflict the American president put on the table a proposal, based on UN Security Council resolutions 242 and 338, very close to the Palestinian demands, and Arafat refused even to accept it as a basis for negotiations, walked out of the room, and deliberately turned to terrorism."

2000, and the Palestinians voiced their reservations on Jan 2, 2001 when they accepted the Parameters?

What kind of negotiator brings up new things when the framework has already been established?

could you please explain how the areas transferred to Israel wouldn't cause logistical problems for Palestinian communities and hamper their expansion? What I want to know most, is in what direction East Jerusalem could expand, and how Ramallah, Jericho and Betlehem could connect with it and form a viable economic entity? The thing is that they could do that without the swaps, but there's a lot of white stuff between them on the map.

And would the land swaps from Israel be able to alleviate any problems caused by the land swaps from Palestine?

You know, there's a nagging suspicion that the Israelis would have given land that was of lesser value for land the Palestinians needed for a viable state. Explain how the Clinton parameters weren't a scam that favored Israel...

In a way, this isn't really interesting, it's just that Bill Clinton maintains he didn't try to scam the Palestinians while he obviously did so. This belongs to the dung heap of history, and has nothing to do with current events and the French peace initiative, which seems to be aimed at being fair to everyone.

that was 16 years ago, a whole generation. so instead of a longer drive, they get to go on stabbing sprees.
a child whose family fled in 1948 and ended up in a refugee camp in Syria or Lebanon or Jordan or Egypt would have lived their whole life, grown old and died never living anywhere but that refugee camp thanks to the policies advocated by the many friends of the Palestinians (such as some at DU) which oppose anything that would improve their lives other than getting 100% of their demands all the time.

...in 2008 that Abbas rejected. It went further than Clinton's Parameters.

So Arafat should've accepted the 2000 offer when he had the chance, correct?

Or was it a shit offer?

BTW, I answered you so that means you answer me next.

was a Centrist party - the same one that Tzipi Livni and Ehud Olmert belonged to

I also just finished editing that one by adding a little more that you probably didn't see when you just posted.

was willing to take it up so that's what I am going with

how the Israeli establishment didn't believe what Arafat said

Maybe BIll needs ot eat more salmon. Get that Omega 3 fatty acid going, so he can remember the 90's a little better.