Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumThe Temple Mount - Radical Islam’s twisted trump card in their holy war against Israel
-snip-
In many ways, the Temple Mount has been subjected to the greatest kidnapping and ransom in Jewish history.
And despite being the crown jewel of Judaism, there is a very simple and practical reason why the government gave Jordans Wakf Islamic trust custodianship after seizing it in 1967 during the Six Day War: If it had not, the war would have never ended, and countless more Muslim soldiers would have attempted to annihilate the people of Israel.
Like it or not, that logic still holds true.
Moreover, what many people forget about the now seven-month terrorist wave that has engulfed the capital, and the country, is that its catalyst was the government barring two Islamic Movement Northern Branch hate groups, the Murabitun (for men) and the Murabitat (for women), from the site last September to stop their chronic attacks against Jewish visitors.
Since then, Palestinian leadership and media have recklessly colluded to manipulate the groups expulsion from the site to proliferate the deadly and patently false narrative that Jews intend to seize and destroy al-Aksa, which has fueled what many are now deeming to be a third intifada.
It is this unconscionably irresponsible and fallacious claim that has driven Arab children as young as 10 to attempted murder and other predatory behaviors against Jews throughout the country.
-snip-
And while the world does not understand the lengths Israelis continue to go to make peace with an enemy that does not recognize their right to exist including making concessions that no other nation would it remains an existential necessity to accept such concessions as a bitter reality to save innocent lives.
Even if it is profoundly unjust.
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Comment-The-Temple-Mount-Radical-Islams-twisted-trump-card-in-their-holy-war-against-Israel-452557
Israeli
(4,310 posts)I wonder where they got that idea from ??
Could it be from .....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134127509
or ....
Temple Institute claims it held secret Jewish wedding on Temple Mount
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4790850,00.html
or ...
WATCH: Clashes break out on Temple Mount after Jews bow down
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4796408,00.html
shira
(30,109 posts)....is pure anti-semitism, just as racist and bigoted as accusing Muslims of being terrorists.
"Hmmm....I wonder where they got the idea that Muslims are terrorists"?
Way to go.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)a couple secretly marrying on the mount with intention to seize the entire mount. That's thoroughly dishonest. Where was your outrage when UNESCO tried to make the Western Wall part of Al Asqa? So egregious the Secretary General of the UN had to make an emergency visit to Israel to stop that vote.
Israeli
(4,310 posts)Organization aimed at establishing Third Temple says groom made wedding vows as one of the wedding's witnesses distracted police and Waqf; unusual event could reignite violence at the sensitive holy site and elsewhere.
The Temple Institute, an organization whose self-declared goal is to "establish the Third Temple," claimed on Tuesday evening that it held a secret Jewish wedding on the Temple Mount in what could reignite hostilities at the sensitive holy site and elsewhere.
that's adorable. Pretending this group in any way represents the Israeli government. More dishonesty.
Its from the same link I posted before ....the one you obviously did not read .
Here you want it in full ....you got it :
Temple Institute claims it held secret Jewish wedding on Temple Mount
Organization aimed at establishing Third Temple says groom made wedding vows as one of the wedding's witnesses distracted police and Waqf; unusual event could reignite violence at the sensitive holy site and elsewhere.
Roi Yanovsky, Kobi Nachshoni
Published: 04.13.16, 00:33 / Israel News
The Temple Institute, an organization whose self-declared goal is to "establish the Third Temple," claimed on Tuesday evening that it held a secret Jewish wedding on the Temple Mount in what could reignite hostilities at the sensitive holy site and elsewhere.
A post on the Temple Institute's Facebook page claims that Rabbi Chaim Richman, who manages the institute's international activity, accepted a request by a couple who asked him to marry them at the holy site after examining the halacha and consulting with other adjudicators.
The institute said the wedding ceremony on the Temple Mount is a great achievement "in light of the Waqf and the police's anti-Jewish discrimination, which rejects any Jewish expression at the holy site."
According to the institute, the couple met with the rabbi several days ago in Jerusalem's Old City, where the blessing over the wine was made.
The institute claims the bride and groom, the rabbi and witnesses met at the entrance to the Temple Mount compound.
While walking along the Temple Mount's eastern perimeter and making sure neither the police nor the Waqf's men noticed what they were doing, the groom recited the declaration: "Behold, you are consecrated to me with this ring according to the law of Moses and Israel" and put a ring on his bride's finger while the witnesses looked on.
The institute claims that moment was documented, but the couple has asked that the video is not released in full. Instead, the institute posted photos of the married couple's ringed-fingers without exposing their identity.
"The ancient custom of brides and grooms arriving at the Temple Mount separately on their wedding day has been upheld in recent years, but an actual wedding on the Temple Mount is a unique event in history, since the Temple's destruction 2,000 years ago," the institute said.
A man who was involved in the planning of the secret ceremony claimed it happened last week. "A group of 13 Jews went on the Temple Mount. One of them caused a diversion to make the police and the Waqf look towards the Dome of the Rock. Then, while another person was hiding the couple, the vows were made."
He said all those involved were asked to keep the ceremony a secret.
The Headquarters of Temple Organizations said they "congratulate the new couple for their marriage on the holy mountain. There's no place like that place to start a life of holiness. However, it is very regretful that such an act has become rare due to the authorities' illegal policy of discrimination on the Temple Mount, which forbids any Jewish expression at the site."
This is an unusual event in the volatile area, known to Muslims as the Noble Sanctuary and to Jews as Temple Mount, where Jews are not allowed to pray.
The status quo on the Temple Mount upholds a rule that has effectively existed since 1187, when Muslim warrior Saladin defeated the Christian crusaders and held on to Jerusalem: non-Muslims may enter the sacred compound, but only Muslims can pray.
Before Muslims built the Dome of the Rock and the Aqsa mosque in the late 7th and early 8th centuries, two Jewish temples, the second destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, stood at the site, which is both the holiest place in Islam outside Saudi Arabia and the most sacred place in Judaism.
After Israel captured the Old City and East Jerusalem in the 1967Six-Day War, it agreed to continue the status quo, recognizing the risks of igniting a religious war if anything were changed. It gave Jordan special responsibility for overseeing the Muslim holy sites via the Waqf, an Islamic trust.
That agreement was reinforced when Israel signed a peace treaty with Jordan in 1994. There have been many periods of friction over the years, but to all intents and purposes, the status quo has held.
Over the last decade or so, since then-opposition leader Ariel Sharon visited the site in 2000, the Waqf says Israel has been slowly chipping away at the rules, with increasing numbers of religious Jews visiting the area and many of them surreptitiously praying.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has rejected those suggestions, saying repeatedly that the government has not changed the rules and has no intention of doing so.
Meanwhile, every week, police detains and at times also arrests right-wing activists on suspicion of praying or violating the rules in another manner.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4790850,00.html
shira
(30,109 posts)You're accusing the Jews of ill intent, just like Hamas & the PLO do when they incite Jew hatred.
Is it deliberate?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)member.
Netanyahu agrees things must change on Temple Mount, says Likud activist
Source: Times of Israel, September 1, 2015
(snip)
Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-agrees-things-must-change-at-temple-mount-says-likud-activist/
shira
(30,109 posts)Show me evidence Israel is violating terms it agreed to with Jordan in 1994.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)when the loathsome UNESCO tried to have a vote to make the Western Wall part of Al Asqa - completely annihilating Jewish history from the site. I understand why they gave control to Palestinians but the Palestinians have been beating them over the head with it ever since. Disgusting. Could you imagine the howls if Israel stopped them from praying at one of their religious shrines? It's why I cheered LOUDLY when I read about the Jewish couple marrying on the mount.
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Second-Jewish-marriage-ceremony-in-2000-years-purportedly-held-on-Temple-Mount-451156
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)There was no other reason for the Caliphs to build a mosque exactly on the Temple Mount.
Especially since the Niraj narrative was invented to justify that very mosque.
PS: like all early mosques, the original al Aqsa was not facing Mecca, but Petra.
So much for the consistency of Islam
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)about it not facing Mecca. When I was in Israel, I never visited the Mount. I didn't want anyone to mistake me resting my eyes for praying and getting attacked or stoned to death for it.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)So its qibla now faces Mecca.
Unlike all the mosques built in the first 100 years of Islam, the first al Aqsa included.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)change the status quo on the Temple Mount.
New bill would allow Jews to pray at Temple Mount
Source: Times of Israel, May 19, 2014
Read more: http://www.timesofisrael.com/mks-propose-law-allowing-jews-to-pray-at-temple-mount/
Jordan Asks Israel for Clarifications Over Temple Mount Bill
Source: Haaretz, Oct 21, 2014
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.622031
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.622031
MK Moalem-Refaeli not deterred after assault by Muslim woman on Temple Mount
Source: Jerusalem Post, 11/03/2014
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/WATCH-Police-arrest-woman-for-pushing-Bayit-Yehudi-MK-Moalem-at-Temple-Mount-380624
Riots in Jerusalem as Chief Rabbi urges Jews not to enter Temple Mount
Source: YNETnews, 11.07.14
Read more: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4589239,00.html
shira
(30,109 posts)Little Tich
(6,171 posts)would allow Jews to pray on the Temple Mount, simply because it's just a minority who would support such a crazy thing?
I believe that there's support in Israel for allowing Jews to pray on the Temple Mount, and that there's widespread support in the Knesset for a bill allowing it.
shira
(30,109 posts)You made a false claim about Israel trying to change the status quo at the Mount.
Acknowledge it, move on.
Admit your sources suck.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....you let us know, okay?
What made you make such a false claim when nothing of the sort has happened?
Why are you accusing Israel of something they haven't done?
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)haven't passed? Let's again discuss the UNESCO vote to make the Western Wall part of Al Asqa compound. It took some very fancy footwork to get the Palestinians to pull that piece of shit bill trying to de-Jew the Temple Mount. But I see "Mr. Neutral" didn't have anything to say at the time and still has nothing to say about it. Just imagine how loud the howls would be if the Israeli's kept the Muslims from merely praying at any of their holy sites as the Jews are forbidden to pray on the Temple Mount. Show some fucking neutrality for a change.
shira
(30,109 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)"taking sides". Everyone has their own minds and worldview. It's the ones that pretend to be neutral but prove themselves to be anything but and slide in a hurry to sniveling hypocrisy.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)The occupying power has no right to change any names, and if you can prove that the name Buraq Wall is an invention, and not what it was called before East Jerusalem was occupied by Jordan, you might have a point.
It's worth noting that the Plaza was once a thriving neighborhood, but Israel decided to flatten it completely, including a Saladin era Mosque, the Sheikh Eid Mosque.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I knew if we waited long enough, you wouldn't be able to keep up that bullshit "neutrality" you're so fond of pushing. It took long enough for you to show your true colors but here they are. Take a look at how Jordan treated the Western Wall when it was under their power, when Jews were FORBIDDEN to even visit let alone pray there. It wasn't a thriving neighborhood - they treated it like a garbage dump. Funny how you only want to discuss one side of the history. And by funny, I mean pathetically predictable from someone who was only pretending neutrality.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)If we're going with what was built there first - it's still the only surviving wall of a JEWISH temple. I don't give a shit what the Jordanians call it.
shira
(30,109 posts)That's the very same bigotry and hatred that kept all Jews out of E.Jerusalem 1949-67.
You know, before the occupation.......too bad you can't use that excuse for Jordan's discrimination vs. Jews.
Your defense of antisemitism is pathetic, really. You're playing tit-for-tat, imagining that because Israel bans Muslims & Christians from their holy sites (which they do not) then it's okay for Muslims to do that to Jews.
What do you think you're defending and justifying?
Acknowledge UNESCO's recent resolutions are antisemitism in its purest form (denying any mention of Jews and their history with the Temple Mount) and move on. Why defend the indefensible?
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)At the very least, let no Muslims pray there until Jews and Christians can pray in Mecca.
Mosby
(17,637 posts)There is plenty of room for alaksa, the dome of the rock and a small synagogue.
Nothing needs to be demolished IMO.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)Just as soon as the Muslims let Jews pray in Mecca then Muslims should be allowed to pray at the temple mount. Not until.
It is ridiculous the degree to which allegedly 'progressive' people give a pass to Islam. I don't care for any of it, but everybody should be able to pray anywhere.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)The reason Jews should be able to pray on the Temple Mount is because it is a Jewish Holy Place in addition to being a Muslim Holy site. What rational connection is there between that and Mecca?
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)Why *shouldn't* Jews be able to pray there? Why does Islam get special privileges. Anyone should be able to pray in ANY city they want.
Are you are saying is that Muslims get to practice religious intolerance but no one else?
Article 2
1. No one shall be subject to discrimination by any State,
institution, group of persons, or person on grounds of religion or
other beliefs.
A/RES/36/55
25 November 1981
Declaration on the Elimination of All Forms of Intolerance and of
Discrimination Based on Religion or Belief
The General Assembly,
Or do you mean that UN resolutions only apply when they slam the Jews? I
aranthus
(3,386 posts)Tit for tat is no moral or responsible way to approach any dispute. What I am saying is that I don't have any problem with exclusively Muslim holy sites (such as Mecca) being exclusively Muslim. I don't think Muslims should be allowed to pray in St. Peters or in synagogues. Religions are allowed to have their exclusive places. They just aren't allowed to make exclusive that which is not (such as the Temple Mount). As for the UN. UN Resolutions do not apply to anyone with any sense. General Assembly Resolutions have no moral or legal authority whatsoever.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)Muslims should be able to pray in St Peter's square and Jews should be allowed to pray in Mecca. It's all just varying forms of mental illness as far as I am concerned, but the amount of slack that supposed progressives cut for the misogynist and homophobic religion of Islam is disgusting.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)Your idiotic ass kissing of a religion that oppresses GLBT and women a disqualifies you just as much if not more.
The problem is that the Muslims want to claim exclusivity to something that they have no more right to do so than the Jews or Christians. The only reason they have any claim to any part of Jerusalem is that they used force to capture it.
The Muslims already have their holy cities Mecca and Medina, I hope Israel clears the whole area and builds a temple , hell, I'll go and help just to piss people like you off.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)It's just that your position is irrelevant. The discussion presumes that peoples' religious beliefs are entitled to respect. Otherwise there is no basis for allowing anyone to pray anywhere.
That you are reduced to smearing me as an ass kisser is telling. Have a nice day.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)However MY beliefs on religion have exactly ZERO to do with the relative validity of my posts or positions. In other words, I apologize for calling you an ass kisser, but you are completely wrong if you think my opinion is any less valid than yours or that of any god botherer.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)because Israel GAVE it to them to control - in just another laughingly naive bid to keep the "peace". Huge mistake. Once again Israel unilaterally takes steps to try and appease and it comes back to bite them on the ass.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)You don't think Muslims should be ALLOWED to pray in church? You would forbid them, as Muslims do for anyone but Muslims on the Mount? I think anyone should be allowed to pray anywhere they wish - no exceptions. That's why what the Muslims have done to the Mount makes me want to barf.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)I think when you walk into someone else's house of worship you are entering their house. It's like going to someone else's country. Be respectful. If someone wants to go into a synagogue and pray silently, that should not be a problem. But Muslim prayer involving putting down a prayer rug and bowing toward Mecca strikes me as a disrespectful, and aggressive appropriation of someone else's exclusive space. I think it would be appropriate to ask that person to stop.
The Temple Mount is not exclusively a Muslim Holy Place. Everyone should be allowed to pray there.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Huge mistake for Israel to hand control over to the Muslims on that. Their actions prove me right. I wasn't even talking about overt displays of prayers - just me closing my eyes on the Temple Mount could get me attacked or arrested if it were mistaken for prayer. That's repulsive to me.
aranthus
(3,386 posts)I would go further and say that Jews should be able to pray on the Mount any way that want. The place is at least as much a Jewish Holy site as it is Muslim.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)And to Christians as well. The pro-P people shy away from this topic like crosses to a vampire. They know they don't have a leg to stand on.
shira
(30,109 posts)....but any topic on I/P proving how hateful their movement is.
The only times they chime in is to defend antisemites or deflect to something else.
There's no condemnation of Jew hatred.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)I apologize for any nasty comments upthread. We are in agreement and it's probably a lack of my reading comprension.
Anyone who thinks Jews shouldn't be allowed to pray on the temple mount, now *THAT* is someone kissing Islam's ass.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Tempers are running hot these days.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)I think we are in complete agreement.