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Trexmaster

(63 posts)
Thu Mar 20, 2025, 12:02 AM Mar 20

Make me understand... Inflation is here to stay - why?

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2025, 01:25 AM - Edit history (1)

"Inflation is here to stay."; and then the discussion ends abruptly.

People don't mean about [effective] interest rates but the pricing, rents themselves – the skeleton of purchasing power itself.

I've read on both US & EU news journals about prices going up, up, up. Cost-push and demand-pull inflation.

From perishable goods, to all inventory goods, and finally real estate (real property).
The most commonly used phrase is: "The price is here to stay, it'll never go down, it'll only grow."

What I fail to understand, after a lifetime of studying on my own, trying to understand why the world works the way it does, always ends up: why?

I'm thinking about people that live on rents or they're stuck paying mortgages fearing for their jobs.
Does it require the entire country to become homeless for something to change AND not destroy global relations?
What do people think it'll happen if "inflation is here to stay, and it'll only grow", other than outright collapse?

Wealthy people live on a mixture of revenue backed by debt. They're indebted as well, as far as I've read, but they're not worried because they can afford that monthly pay through some clever accounting on their revenue (benefits/bonuses, dividends), with those generous offers on the debt (usually very low, compared to the majority of people).

Help me understand, why is inflation here to stay, why is it that so godly impossible to force down inventory prices/rents/real estate?
People are jaded and it seems they just want it to go away but they're too tired/mush to see into the future. They'll hope it's not them or their family.
You can't reinvent the wheel eternally, a lot of jobs have a break-even that will never rise except with the inert inflation itself.
8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Make me understand... Inflation is here to stay - why? (Original Post) Trexmaster Mar 20 OP
infinite growth Be Leave On Mar 20 #1
Inflation depends on private pricing power, and usually demand. bucolic_frolic Mar 20 #2
Private pricing power & demand power Trexmaster Mar 21 #5
i'm not sure if you're asking why prices rarely go down ever, or why we're currently experiencing stubborn inflation unblock Mar 20 #3
No heterodox solutions? Trexmaster Mar 21 #6
The CPI for the last 13 months - progree Mar 20 #4
2020s... not 2010s, or before Trexmaster Mar 21 #7
For looking at inflation all the way back to 1947 -- progree Mar 21 #8

bucolic_frolic

(49,506 posts)
2. Inflation depends on private pricing power, and usually demand.
Thu Mar 20, 2025, 09:51 AM
Mar 20

Private pricing power i mean the owners of the goods. Maybe they don't care how much they sell so they could put high prices and just wait for suckers to buy. But usually there is demand. So they can raise prices until they don't sell. With food, it sells because people must eat.

 

Trexmaster

(63 posts)
5. Private pricing power & demand power
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 03:57 AM
Mar 21

Yes, cost-push inflation and demand-pull inflation.

What's the exit of this? Collapse?

unblock

(54,903 posts)
3. i'm not sure if you're asking why prices rarely go down ever, or why we're currently experiencing stubborn inflation
Thu Mar 20, 2025, 10:21 AM
Mar 20

if you're asking why the long-term pattern includes periods of very low inflation and moderate or high inflation but rarely and deflation, well, that's basically because deflation is worse than inflation for the economy and for most people, so policy makers try to avoid it like the plague.

inflation is obviously not ideal, but low inflation isn't horrible, and it has some positive effects -- it encourages people to spend money before it becomes less valuable, which helps keep the economy moving. this is basically why the fed targets 2% inflation, rather than 0%. plus, we basically know how to tame inflation. jacking up interest rates isn't pretty and can lead to a recession, but once inflation expectations are under control, the economy can resume normal growth with price stability.

deflation is more problematic. once people get the idea that prices are generally going down, they have an incentive to save and save and defer spending. this reduces demand, causing prices to continue to fall, creating a vicious cycle. And unlike inflation, it's harder for policy makers to solve. one might think lowering interest rates and increasing the money supply (the opposite of the inflation-fighting strategy) might work, but unfortunately, this doesn't usually have the desired effect. people just take the easier money and just continue to save rather than spend, which is what is needed to get prices back up.

*short*-term inflation is often followed by prices mostly coming back down, albeit slowly and rarely fully. but inflation that lasts more than a few months is usually followed simply by a return to price stability. policy-makers don't want prices to come back down.

japan got themselves into a deflation trap around 1998, it took about 15 years to get out of it.


as to why we currently have inflation, there are a few lingering effects from the covid shocks, but a lot of it at this point has to do with things like continued consolidation in various industries, allowing trust/monopolistic effects due to decreased competition and a lack of real choices for consumers. that said, biden/powell had nearly ended inflation, but then donnie came along with his tariff nonsense, directly making prices go up, and screwed it back up again.

 

Trexmaster

(63 posts)
6. No heterodox solutions?
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 04:12 AM
Mar 21

In December 2024, I've read an article about New Zealand having problems with inflation. Why is that an interest?

New Zealand invented ( link 1, link 2 ) the whole 2%-3% annual inflation target mechanism, which was copied by everyone. All things went well, until the economic crisis of '08-'09. From then on, we know.
The same country that invented the 2%-3% annual inflation target, was back at square one for before it invented that mechanism in the late 1988 or 1989, early 1990s.

That mechanism is "inflation on [very] low heat" – which has proven by now that compounding inflation (inertial inflation?) doesn't erode. It's permanent. We're being told that we're stuck with it ("here to stay&quot , and I'm searching hopelessly why is that considered optimal.

Now they're touting the "Great Currency Reset" talks but that's just another groundhog day that, as we know, has an expiration date of 20 years (minimum), before we'll start again.

So what's left? Imminent collapse? Inflation on low heat since the 1989-1990 eventually transformed today in the "prices now are here to stay, and they'll only grow from now on..."–
Hello, what!?! We're just waiting until mass evictions, bankruptcies, and police to crack skulls?!

As to why we currently have inflation, there are a few lingering effects from the Covid shocks, but a lot of it at this point has to do with things like continued consolidation in various industries, allowing trust/monopolistic effects due to decreased competition and a lack of real choices for consumers.
That said, Biden/Powell had nearly ended inflation, but then donnie came along with his tariff nonsense, directly making prices go up, and screwed it back up again.


How?
We've been told we are never, never, ever returning back to pre-Covid pre-2008 Economic Crisis purchasing power parity. Because... inflation is here to stay

progree

(11,762 posts)
4. The CPI for the last 13 months -
Thu Mar 20, 2025, 11:18 AM
Mar 20

Last edited Thu Mar 20, 2025, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)

Just for some context, it doesn't answer your question, but I see some excellent answers up-thread. Election day was Nov 5 and inauguration day was January 20. And rolling 3 month averages, and month-by-month increases to show trends better in recent inflation. They show prices rising since July.

Latest LBN CPI thread (March 12) https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143416133

News report from the source: https://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm
CPI data series: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0
CORE CPI data series: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0L1E

I annualize everything to be comparable to each other and to compare to the Fed's 2% target

They are calculated using the actual index values, not from the rounded off monthly change numbers.

The CPI rise averaged 4.3% over the past 3 months on an annualized basis (core CPI: 3.6%)
The February one month increase annualized is: CPI: 2.6%, CORE CPI: 2.8%


REGULAR CPI


CORE CPI = CPI less food and energy


12 month rolling averages (YOY)

One reason for the decline in the 12 month average aka year-over-year is that the big February 2024 increases dropped out of the 12 month window.

CPI increase in February 2024: 0.40% (4.86% annualized)

Core CPI increase in February 2024: 0.37% (4.54% annualized)

The number dropping out of the 12 month window is just as important as the one entering the 12 month window.

If the incoming number is lower than the outgoing number, then the 12 month average drops, plain and simple. (Similarly with any n-month rolling average).


 

Trexmaster

(63 posts)
7. 2020s... not 2010s, or before
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 04:16 AM
Mar 21

Right... compared to 2010s?
Pre-economic crisis?
'90s?

The purchasing power isn't there anymore and I can't find any economist (unless it's under lock n' key) to erode that inert inflation that we're stuck with.

progree

(11,762 posts)
8. For looking at inflation all the way back to 1947 --
Fri Mar 21, 2025, 10:39 AM
Mar 21

Last edited Fri Mar 21, 2025, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)

Right... compared to 2010s?
Pre-economic crisis?
'90s?


CPI data series: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0

Click on the link,
near the top right side is "More Formatting Options". Click on that
On the left side of the page that appears, click on these checkboxes:
Original Data Values, 12-Month Percent Change.
Change the "Specify Year Range" to 1947 (or whatever) to 2025
Click Retrieve Data.

If you want to find the inflation rate for a particular time period, e.g. the 1950's as an example:

Looking at original data values, e.g.
Jan. 1950: 23.51, Jan. 1960: 29.37
one can calculate the average inflation of the 1950's as 29.37/23.51 = 1.249, that is, prices increased 1.249 fold over that decade (a nearly 25% price increase)

The average annual percent increase over those 10 years is ( 1.249^(1/10) - 1 ) * 100% = 2.25%/year

The purchasing power isn't there anymore and I can't find any economist (unless it's under lock n' key) to erode that inert inflation that we're stuck with.


It's been explained upthread why economists and the Fed think a little bit of inflation is desirable, and I have no quarrel with them.

The main reason I showed the last 13 months in my previous reply is because I had those graphs handy, most people are interested in how we've been doing lately, and because I saw a complete mischaracterization of recent inflation (not in your post but elsewhere), and I wanted to present the data to clear that up.
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