United Kingdom

Emrys

(8,053 posts) Thu Oct 10, 2024, 07:37 PM Oct 10

Lucy Letby: police and CPS handling of case raises new concerns about convictions

Exclusive: Letby’s barrister says application challenging verdicts is being prepared using expert medical evidence

When the public inquiry into the crimes of the former nurse Lucy Letby opened in Liverpool last month its chair, Lady Justice Thirlwall, dismissed concerns about the safety of the convictions as “noise”. The judge cautioned that questions being raised were increasing the distress of parents whose children had died or been harmed.

Letby was found guilty across two trials of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder seven others at the Countess of Chester hospital (COCH) in 2015 and 2016. Thirlwall pointed out that in May this year, the court of appeal refused Letby permission to appeal, and she said it was not the role of her inquiry to review the convictions.

Yet questions about the case, and the number of experts raising them, have continued to mount. Letby is being represented by a new barrister, Mark McDonald, and a number of specialists including leading neonatologists – doctors who specialise in treating premature babies – are voluntarily working with him on an application to the Criminal Cases Review Commission. Having examined the detail, these experts consider there are more plausible alternative causes of the babies’ deaths and collapses than those for which Letby was convicted.

The Guardian can now report on further key concerns about the case, including the approach taken by Cheshire police and the Crown Prosecution Service, and the conduct of the trials.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/oct/10/lucy-letby-police-cps-handling-case-raises-new-concerns-about-convictions?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I must confess that I didn't pay close attention to the Letby case when it was being prosecuted because my tolerance for "aint it awful" and "aint this murderer an awful monster" true crime stories I can't do anything about is slim and the details I did hear were just horrible for everyone concerned. But regular revelations in the likes of Private Eye are leading me to the conclusion that Letby's convictions didn't meet the standard of beyond reasonable doubt and there may have been a concerted cover-up of systemic dysfunction in her hospital's maternity facilities for which she was made a scapegoat.

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Lucy Letby: police and CPS handling of case raises new concerns about convictions (Original Post) Emrys Oct 10 OP

OMG!! I've listened to some Podcasts about this case IcyPeas Oct 11 #1

I'm not going to get into a blow-by-blow rebuttal of a gish gallop Emrys Oct 11 #2

I understand. Thank you. IcyPeas Oct 11 #3

This People Mag article has a lot of background & info for those who appalachiablue Oct 17 #4

The NYT follows up the case after Letby's unsuccessful appeal earlier in the week: Emrys Oct 27 #5

IcyPeas

(22,732 posts)

1. OMG!! I've listened to some Podcasts about this case

Reply to Emrys (Original post)

Fri Oct 11, 2024, 04:11 AM

Oct 11

I first heard about it from The New Yorker article, (long article linked below) then I went on a deep dive. I believe 99.99% that she's guilty.

I get that the statisticians are questioning the chart showing that Lucy was on duty at the times of the deaths. But, coincidence or Occam's Razor? (See chart link from Reddit below)

Reading about Baby E one of the twins and the mothers testimony was pretty devastating. Also reading about the triplets, Baby O and Baby P were killed and the parents insisted on moving the surviving baby to another hospital. Also Baby F and Baby I poisoned with insulin and both times only Lucy and one other nurse were on duty.

I dunno.... could there be so many coincidences? there seems to be enough evidence. She did things like going into work when she wasn't scheduled, took tons of paperwork home that she shouldn't have. Lots of questionable behavior.

And 2 juries have now found her guilty.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/ng-interactive/2023/aug/18/lucy-letby-timeline-attacks-babies-when-alarm-raised

Lots of info here too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucy_Letby

Also, you can listen to transcripts of testimony on this YouTube channel: (like I said, I went on a deep dive.)

There's a Reddit dedicated to the case with lots of transcript images and exhibits. Look at this chart showing who was on duty each time there was a death:

https://www.reddit.com/r/lucyletby/s/w426zK3dZD

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/05/20/lucy-letby-was-found-guilty-of-killing-seven-babies-did-she-do-it

Emrys

(8,053 posts)

2. I'm not going to get into a blow-by-blow rebuttal of a gish gallop

Reply to IcyPeas (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 11, 2024, 07:56 AM

Oct 11

Since you seem to have been so interested in the case, here are the Private Eye reports I referred to:

Special Reports
The Lessons of the Lucy Letby Case
MD on medical experts and a fair trial

By Dr Phil Hammond (MD)

After Lucy Letby was convicted in August 2023 of murdering seven babies, a number of experts contacted Eye columnist MD because they "believe the science and statistics presented at the trial were incomplete and flawed and that the case against Letby was not proven beyond reasonable doubt". In this five part Special Report Dr Phil Hammond lays out the case of why he thinks the nurse should be allowed to appeal.

https://www.private-eye.co.uk/special-reports/lucy-letby

I don't know if they made it across the Pond, but other UK media have been picking through the evidence as anomalies emerge, such as The Telegraph. Private Eye itself casts doubt on the insulin poisoning. Anything I might have to say about the case is in its reports.

IcyPeas

(22,732 posts)

3. I understand. Thank you.

Reply to Emrys (Reply #2)

Fri Oct 11, 2024, 03:38 PM

Oct 11

I will read these reports too.

appalachiablue

(43,088 posts)

4. This People Mag article has a lot of background & info for those who

Reply to Emrys (Original post)

Thu Oct 17, 2024, 03:04 PM

Oct 17

haven't been following this horrible case.

https://people.com/crime/lucy-letby-trial-what-to-know/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

Emrys

(8,053 posts)

5. The NYT follows up the case after Letby's unsuccessful appeal earlier in the week:

Reply to Emrys (Original post)

Sun Oct 27, 2024, 05:56 PM

Oct 27

5 Key Questions Hanging Over the Lucy Letby ‘Killer Nurse’ Case

Ms. Letby, a neonatal nurse in England found guilty of murdering seven babies, has lost a fresh appeal bid. A growing number of experts have raised concerns about the evidence.

Here are some of the concerns raised about the case:

Statistics were misused, many experts say.
Doubts have emerged over the ‘air embolism’ evidence.
Insulin poisoning evidence has been questioned by clinical experts.
Psychologists have questions about a note that was treated as a confession.
There were longstanding concerns about the neonatal unit.

When Lucy Letby, a former nurse in a neonatal unit at a hospital in northern England, was found guilty last year of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder six others, Britain reacted with horror. She was convicted of attempting to murder another baby in a retrial of one charge earlier this year.

The prosecution told the jury in the two trials that she had harmed babies through a macabre range of attacks: injecting them with air, overfeeding them with milk, infusing air into their gastrointestinal tracts and poisoning them with insulin.

Ms. Letby, 34, was handed 15 mandatory life sentences. But in the months since, a growing number of experts have suggested that the evidence used to convict her was flawed. Serious questions were first raised in a 13,000-word New Yorker article in May. Since then, dozens of statisticians and medical experts have expressed concerns.

Ms. Letby has always maintained her innocence. In May, her request to appeal her original murder convictions was denied. She was separately convicted in July in a retrial of one count of attempted murder, and on Thursday judges rejected her request to appeal that conviction.

Here’s what to know about the main concerns raised about Ms. Letby’s case.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/24/world/europe/lucy-letby-uk-trial-questions.html

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