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FakeNoose

(36,031 posts)
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:13 PM Jan 2023

In his first executive order, Shapiro removes degree requirement for thousands of state jobs


Caption: Gov. Josh Shapiro and Lt. Gov. Austin Davis host a ceremony to sign their administration’s first executive order on Wednesday, Jan. 18, 2023, at the Capitol in Harrisburg. (Capital-Star photo by Marley Parish)

(link) https://www.penncapital-star.com/government-politics/in-his-first-executive-order-shapiro-removes-degree-requirement-for-thousands-of-state-jobs/

On his first full day in office, Gov. Josh Shapiro, a Democrat, signed his first executive order, removing a four-year degree requirement for tens of thousands of state government jobs.

Shapiro — who took the oath of office on Tuesday with Lt. Gov. Austin Davis — said the order applies to 92% of commonwealth jobs, estimating that roughly 65,000 positions in the state will be open to Pennsylvanians regardless of whether they hold a college degree.

“In Pennsylvania, the people should decide what path is best for them, not have it decided by some arbitrary requirement or any arbitrary limitation,” Shapiro said during a public signing ceremony on Wednesday.

Along with the executive action, Shapiro ordered all executive branch agencies to emphasize skills and experience during the hiring process and launched a review of the remaining 8% of jobs that still require a four-year degree. The administration also opened a new website that lets applicants search and filter state government job openings based on degree requirements.

“Pennsylvania government should be a place where every single person has the opportunity to serve and to succeed,” Davis said. “This is a significant step in tearing down barriers for employment here in Pennsylvania.”


- more at link -

Good move, Governor Shapiro.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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In his first executive order, Shapiro removes degree requirement for thousands of state jobs (Original Post) FakeNoose Jan 2023 OP
I think results on this will be mixed bucolic_frolic Jan 2023 #1
A degree is desirable but skills and experience count too. brush Jan 2023 #4
Excellent! Faux pas Jan 2023 #2
Can I work as an electrician or plumber.... TheRealNorth Jan 2023 #3
Most Companies Allow Job Experience to Meet Any Degree Requirement Indykatie Jan 2023 #5
It's mostly clerical jobs they're focusing on FakeNoose Jan 2023 #6
You don't need a college degree to be an electrician... brush Jan 2023 #7
But a lot of the trade jobs can be pretty exclusive.... TheRealNorth Jan 2023 #13
True, but not a college degree, which is often more expensive to get. brush Jan 2023 #16
Yeah, that might not be the best way forward. Sorry. dem4decades Jan 2023 #8
The jobs that this covers are primarily clerical and administrative . . . markpkessinger Jan 2023 #10
92% of all State jobs... TheRealNorth Jan 2023 #14
I think it sounds Fair.. the best Cha Jan 2023 #9
so why should the state pay for colleges and universities... mike_c Jan 2023 #11
Colleges and Universities will go back to being for the Rich TheRealNorth Jan 2023 #15
I think it's a terrible idea. Dumbing down of america continues. jimfields33 Jan 2023 #12
Having worked in a civil service job for 30+ years (feds) before I retired BumRushDaShow Jan 2023 #17
Agreed - the entry level jobs don't need a 4-year degree, it shouldn't be a barrier FakeNoose Jan 2023 #18
Having worked in a federal health agency myself and as a supervisor BumRushDaShow Jan 2023 #19
Yes of course, I wasn't thinking of the medical health field FakeNoose Jan 2023 #20
Thanks to computers BumRushDaShow Jan 2023 #21

bucolic_frolic

(47,636 posts)
1. I think results on this will be mixed
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:18 PM
Jan 2023

At a time when they can't fill jobs, this makes sense. But you do get something with education.

brush

(58,059 posts)
4. A degree is desirable but skills and experience count too.
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:32 PM
Jan 2023

One learns quite a lot acquiring both.

TheRealNorth

(9,629 posts)
3. Can I work as an electrician or plumber....
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:29 PM
Jan 2023

Without going through or being in an apprenticeship?

The only thing this does is cheapen the value of a college degree.

Indykatie

(3,853 posts)
5. Most Companies Allow Job Experience to Meet Any Degree Requirement
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:32 PM
Jan 2023

Requiring a degree for a job that doesn't require specific training or expertise is foolish in my opinion.

FakeNoose

(36,031 posts)
6. It's mostly clerical jobs they're focusing on
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:33 PM
Jan 2023

Employees can be hired without the 4-year degree, and after a few years they can earn their degree while working for the state government.

brush

(58,059 posts)
7. You don't need a college degree to be an electrician...
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:34 PM
Jan 2023

or plumber. You need skills and experience, which is mentioned in the OP.

TheRealNorth

(9,629 posts)
13. But a lot of the trade jobs can be pretty exclusive....
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 05:52 PM
Jan 2023

You usually gotta know "the right people" to get the apprenticeship.

And you have to pass some tests for the trades too.

markpkessinger

(8,588 posts)
10. The jobs that this covers are primarily clerical and administrative . . .
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 02:39 PM
Jan 2023

. . . and certainly do not require a 4-year degree in most cases. The 4-year degree requirement means that these jobs would be off limits to many people who would be perfectly able to serve capably and competently. What's more, it reinforces the idea in many people's minds that government is by and for weath(ier) elites. This is a good move.

TheRealNorth

(9,629 posts)
14. 92% of all State jobs...
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 06:05 PM
Jan 2023

Sounds like it is more than clerical jobs. And maybe PA is different, but in my experience clerical jobs in local and State government have not required college degrees. But people who have degrees may get points over those without degrees, even if the experience levels are the same.

Cha

(305,866 posts)
9. I think it sounds Fair.. the best
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 01:50 PM
Jan 2023

person for the job.

Not everyone can afford to go to College.

mike_c

(36,399 posts)
11. so why should the state pay for colleges and universities...
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 02:42 PM
Jan 2023

...if it has no need for a well educated workforce? This just sounds like more culture war BS. I don't particularly want to be on the uneducated side.

TheRealNorth

(9,629 posts)
15. Colleges and Universities will go back to being for the Rich
Fri Jan 20, 2023, 06:07 PM
Jan 2023

No need for the working class to go get an education so that you can debate philosophy or economics. The ruling class will teach us everything we need to know.

BumRushDaShow

(144,312 posts)
17. Having worked in a civil service job for 30+ years (feds) before I retired
Sat Jan 21, 2023, 10:03 AM
Jan 2023

many of the federal PDs (Position Descriptions) will say "4-year degree or equivalent experience" meaning that you might have someone who has a 2- year associate's degree in some field and then perhaps 10 years of work experience that also included periodic and/or annual training for various certifications, etc.

What this does is allow for entry level hires without 4-year degrees who can then, if they choose, advance their career to a higher level position/pay scale upon completion of one.

During my own work career including as a supervisor, I don't remember how many I have mentored over the years who had no degree but who saw a position they enjoyed (and often were already doing most of the work for) but were not paid commensurate because of the lack of the "degree".

So pathways were created (often with subsidies and other accommodations) for that employee to get additional educational credits, usually enough to confer a degree with an approved plan.

Many Community Colleges and other higher learning institutions that confer degrees, actually convert "work experience" into credits that are applicable towards an associate's, bachelors, or even masters degree. I know I did similar with getting a master's certificate in project management and had I decided to take all the certification exams and another year's worth of courses, could have actually done it as a full masters thing.

FakeNoose

(36,031 posts)
18. Agreed - the entry level jobs don't need a 4-year degree, it shouldn't be a barrier
Sat Jan 21, 2023, 01:14 PM
Jan 2023

I totally believe that entry-level clerical and administrative positions should be open to those with a 2-year degree or the equivalent in work experience. These new hires can be encouraged to continue their education, if they have the resources and the time to do so.

If they choose to stay at entry-level, then so be it. However I believe most state employees do aspire to higher positions and pay levels, and they realize that continuing their education is the key to moving up to executive and supervisory positions.

Those of us who actually have 4 year college degrees shouldn't be snobbish about it either. "Share Your Knowledge" has always been my motto in my career and in outside interests.

BumRushDaShow

(144,312 posts)
19. Having worked in a federal health agency myself and as a supervisor
Sat Jan 21, 2023, 01:38 PM
Jan 2023

did screening/interviews of potential hires, it's not just "administrative" or "clerical". You can have tech and health-related entry-level positions that either don't have or need a 4-year degree.

For example, PA has "Health Aides" and they assist other state healthcare staff and I even spotted this - https://careers.employment.pa.gov/Home/GetJobNameInfo?jobCode=30001

JOB TITLE: AIDE TRAINEE

JOB CODE: 30001

DEFINITION: This is trainee level work in providing non-professional direct rehabilitative nursing care and treatment or habilitative care and services for individuals.

An employee in this job attends formal classroom training sessions and receives on-the-job training assignments to develop the knowledge and skills necessary to assist nursing staff in the direct and daily care of individuals residing in a state operated facility. Training is achieved through formal classroom instruction, computer-based training, reading assignments, and behavioral observation of individuals. An employee receives on-the-job training in non-professional direct care methods, techniques, and procedures. As knowledge and skills are acquired, further developmental assignments are given in actual work situations. Training and work assignments are performed under the close supervision and review of higher-level staff.

EXAMPLES OF WORK: (NOTE: The examples of work are representative of the work, but every position classified to this job may not perform all examples of work listed. Conversely, this is not an all-inclusive list of work examples.)

• Completes formal classroom and on-the-job training.

• Instructs, guides, and assists individuals with activities of daily living, such as dressing, bathing, and oral hygiene.

• Records daily observations of individuals’ physical or behavioral changes due to reactions to medication, personal events, or other circumstances.

• Serves meals and assists individuals with eating.

• Assists individuals with walking and transports non-ambulatory individuals by wheelchair, stretcher, gurney, or other means.

• Lifts and positions non-ambulatory individuals.

• Assists with basic first aid measures, such as applying small adhesive bandages.

• Maintains cleanliness of wards, living areas, or buildings including emptying trash containers and sanitizing bathrooms.

• Transports and empties bed pans.

• Collects urine and fecal specimens for laboratory analysis.

• Takes and records individuals’ weight, blood pressure, temperature, pulse, and respiration readings.

• Assists professional staff in implementing individuals’ treatment plans by participating in multidisciplinary treatment team meetings and instructing and guiding individuals to participate in therapeutic programs and activities.

• Washes and sterilizes individuals’ medical equipment, such as medical implements, instruments, basins, bedpans, and urinals.

• Adheres to established fire, safety, and infection control policies and procedures.

• Reports safety hazards in buildings, wards, and living areas.

• Performs related work as required.

ENTRY LEVEL KNOWLEDGES, SKILLS, AND ABILITIES:

• Ability to establish and maintain effective working relationships.

• Ability to read and understand written materials.

• Ability to communicate effectively orally.

• Ability to communicate effectively in writing.



And a step up from "trainee" might be - https://careers.employment.pa.gov/Home/GetJobNameInfo?jobCode=30320

JOB TITLE: NURSE AIDE

JOB CODE: 30320

DEFINITION: This is non-professional nursing work in the care and rehabilitation of individuals.

An employee in this job performs non-professional nursing work in the direct care and rehabilitation of individuals residing in state operated facilities, such as a veterans’ home, restoration center, or state correctional facility. Work involves carrying out the daily routine of individualized care plans; assisting individuals with activities of daily living, personal care needs, and rehabilitative activities; maintaining individuals’ living areas; observing and reporting changes in individuals’ physical condition and behavior; and documenting daily care performed and information obtained in individuals' records. Work also involves participating in on-the-job, in-service, and formal training in nursing care procedures to update and maintain non-professional nursing care expertise. Nursing duties are of limited scope and are performed in accordance with established regulations, rules, care plans, and specific instructions. Work is performed under close supervision of a licensed professional supervisor who reviews work through reports, inspections, and observations, but employees are expected to perform the more routine duties independently.

EXAMPLES OF WORK: (NOTE: The examples of work are representative of the work, but every position classified to this job may not perform all examples of work listed. Conversely, this is not an all-inclusive list of work examples.):

• Assists individuals in prescribed therapeutic rehabilitative programs intended to improve their social and physical wellbeing.

• Assists individuals with activities of daily living and personal care needs, such as bathing, oral hygiene, shaving, hair care, nail care, dressing, walking, exercising, and getting in and out of bed using mechanical lifts or manual lifting techniques.

• Demonstrates and teaches individuals how to meet their daily living and personal care needs without assistance, within the limits of their physical capabilities, and in accordance with nursing care plans.

• Takes and records individuals’ temperatures, weight, pulse, and respiration rates.

• Records and reports indicative signs and symptoms of individuals’ behavior and conditions, and their responses to care and treatment in their clinical records.

• Performs daily activities for individuals such as making beds, changing linens, sorting laundry, giving rubs, lifting and repositioning, administering unmedicated ointments and lotions, and applying hot water bottles and ice caps as prescribed.

• Serves nourishment, meals, and liquids to individuals and assists them with feeding.

• Prepares and assists in applying unmedicated soaks.

• Applies comfort and control devices such as binders, supports, back rests, side rails, walking-assist devices, and other types of prostheses under the direction of licensed professional staff.

• Collects specimens, passes bed pans and urinals, empties and cleans drainage bottles, and records amount of drainage.

• Participates in multidisciplinary, nursing care, occupational therapy, and other types of meetings to discuss individuals’ needs, to report observations, and to receive recommendations and plans of rehabilitation, care, therapy, and treatment of individuals from medical and therapeutic personnel.

• Provides input to professional staff during the development of care plans.

• Observes and reports unusual incidents or emergency occurrences to supervisory personnel and assists as required.

• Assists with routine admission, transfer, and discharge procedures.

• Escorts individuals to recreational, rehabilitative, clinical, and other onsite and offsite appointments and activities.

• Makes rounds with professional personnel at the beginning and close of the tour of duty.

• Sterilizes and cleans medical equipment such as feeding pumps, nebulizers, IV pumps, and glucometers.

• Cares for an individual’s body after death and before arrival of the ambulance or funeral home staff.

• Follows fire, safety, and infection control policies and procedures.

• Performs related work as required.

ENTRY LEVEL KNOWLEDGES, SKILLS, AND ABILITIES:

• Knowledge of non-professional nursing practices and techniques.

• Knowledge of first aid practices and procedures.

• Knowledge of common physical illnesses and their obvious signs and symptoms.

• Ability to establish and maintain effective working relationships.

• Ability to communicate effectively orally.

• Ability to communicate effectively in writing.

MINIMUM EXPERIENCE AND TRAINING: (NOTE: Based on the Entry Level Knowledges, Skills, and Abilities):

• Active registration as a Nurse Aide in the Pennsylvania Nurse Aide Registry;

or

• Six months of paid experience in the care and treatment of geriatric or physically ill patients or residents.

SPECIAL REQUIREMENT:

• Positions assigned to a long-term care facility in the Department of Human Services or in the Department of Military and Veterans Affairs require active registration as a Nurse Aide in the Pennsylvania Nurse Aide Registry.


where the above applicant might have a 2-year LPN degree (or equivalent training/certification) that can eventually lead to more formal schooling to move up - including to 4 year Bachelors/Masters/PhD-level nursing degrees...

And given the state of health workers after COVID I *know* it's probably universally difficult to get people back into the field - let alone for the state!

FakeNoose

(36,031 posts)
20. Yes of course, I wasn't thinking of the medical health field
Sat Jan 21, 2023, 03:03 PM
Jan 2023

I was thinking more of the office staffing.

Hospital orderlies, nurse's aides and similar jobs are perfect examples.

Thanks for this info, it could be helpful to a lot of people.

BumRushDaShow

(144,312 posts)
21. Thanks to computers
Sat Jan 21, 2023, 03:53 PM
Jan 2023

so much of the "administrative/clerical" positions were pretty much eliminated (or renamed). It was all part of the "do more with less" era that came with more automation in the '90s and early '00s, with people typing and filing their own reports, entering their own data into the tracking databases (including work dispositions, timekeeping requests, and completing their own travel vouchers, etc.). So no more dictation/transcriptions/editing or performing other clerical things like faxing scanning documents, etc., EXCEPT for the top managers.

Previously most of that was done by administrative/secretarial staff and that forced a much tinier footprint for those types of positions from that point on.

I know just before I retired in 2017, our Administrative Office (alone) that originally had about 10+ people (including fiscal) when I started, was down to 3 (including the supervisor) when I left. The other programmatic offices were down to 1 administrative staff person per branch after having multiple support staff in the past per group.

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