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lees1975

(6,100 posts)
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 11:29 AM Saturday

How many Democratic voters stayed home in November because of the failure to prosecute Trump for insurrection?

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2024/12/how-many-democratic-voters-stayed-home.html

Was it enough to cost Kamala Harris the election?

The slow-walking, almost deliberate and intentional failure to bring Trump to trial by Attorney General Merrick Garland and the United States Justice Department hasn't been the topic of discussion in any post-election coverage in the mainstream media. I haven't even heard anyone on MSNBC put together the inconsistency between Democratic party rhetoric that Trump is "an existential threat to American Constitutional Democracy," and the complete and total failure of Garland and the justice department of the Biden administration to prosecute him for obvious crimes he committed that would have made him ineligible to run for President and neutralized the threat he posed.

I don't expect the mainstream media to provide an honest assessment of the factors leading up to Harris' "razor thin" election loss. They've done nothing but cover every move Trump has made every single day since he left the White House in 2021, giving him a much larger platform than they did to the sitting President of the United States. We won't hear anything they don't want us to hear.

Personally, the painfully and deliberately slow movement of the justice department under Garland's leadership in pursuing the incitement of the January 6th insurrection by Trump, was a huge frustration. How is it that the House of Representatives can conduct an investigation, uncover mountains of irrefutable, obvious and direct evidence that Trump was directly responsible for all of the planning and organizing, including having right wing militants already at the Capitol when the crowd he incited arrived, and lay that out in a nationally televised series of hearings, which convinced over 60% of the American people that he was directly responsible for it, but the justice department doesn't actually get around to prosecuting it in a timely matter?

That makes me damn angry.


I haven't seen any exit polling or any research that has been done to indicate the effect the failure of the justice department to prosecute Trump and end his threat to American democracy on democratic voters staying home, or independent voters deciding that the Democrats weren't really serious. But it would be an educated guess, considering how razor thin the margins were in enough swing states to change the election results, that Merrick Garland's failure to prosecute Trump for serious crimes against the American people was one of the major causes for Democrats staying home, and for Harris losing the election.
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How many Democratic voters stayed home in November because of the failure to prosecute Trump for insurrection? (Original Post) lees1975 Saturday OP
Great question. sop Saturday #1
Might have helped if Garland had gone after trump earlier. Garland might have also understood what a chitshow Silent Type Saturday #2
Have you read the report of the House committee? lees1975 Saturday #6
If they stayed home over that they are fucking idiots bottomofthehill Saturday #3
+1000. Paladin Saturday #4
But the failure to prosecute and convict him was a demonstration that one thing didn't matter. lees1975 Saturday #10
Short answer: not enough to make a noticeable difference. hay rick Saturday #5
I don't know about that. lees1975 Saturday #9
People who were upset at Garland's tardy prosecution were paying attention. hay rick Saturday #31
Right Wiz Imp Saturday #11
More likke 89%. 13 million registered voters didn''t vote, and a higher percentage of Democrats than Republicans. lees1975 Saturday #14
Not sure where your numbers are coming from, there was a 64% voter turn out bottomofthehill Saturday #35
Garland is totally at fault Trump should have been eliminated by 2022, gordianot Saturday #7
If he had been convicted - Nigrum Cattus Saturday #8
Bush brothers and corrupt SCOTUS never held accountable for their 2000 election theft GoreWon2000 Saturday #12
+1 leftstreet Saturday #17
i think it was a factor that influenced a lot of people orleans Saturday #13
No. MangoMoose Saturday #15
"I blame Clooney and Reiner and Pelosi and every other dem who forced Biden out.. 3catwoman3 Saturday #21
How many Dem ballots got disappeared? Irish_Dem Saturday #16
Damn 3auld6phart Saturday #18
Probably a non-zero number. There were a lot of reasons to say "to hell with it." n/t malthaussen Saturday #19
Garland. He made them stay home. Just like Hillary made them do it in 2016. Beastly Boy Saturday #20
Stop making excuses for people who didn't vote. nycbos Saturday #22
Failure to prosecute Dave Id Saturday #23
Honestly, there is plenty of blame to go 'round. the_sly_pig Saturday #24
I don't believe that many voters stayed home KS Toronado Saturday #25
It was MAGA repubs DownriverDem Saturday #26
Makes no sense to me. Voters who wanted Trump in prison ... Martin Eden Saturday #27
Those people must not have read the cheerleaders' thoughts on the matter Orrex Saturday #28
Garland's problem was that he seemed afraid DeeDeeNY Saturday #29
Or uniformed and disillusioned by another departure from a clear, simple message. lees1975 Saturday #34
I think you mean the Mr. Musk's chief of staff's legal strategy of delay Tweedy Saturday #30
Makes no sense but that seems to be the character of american voters these day, no sense. nt yaesu Saturday #32
Mostly it was morons who fell for bullshit issues that aren't really issues. CrispyQ Saturday #33
Sadly not a factor pattyloutwo Saturday #36
Talk about short-sighted... Blue_Tires Saturday #37
SC Jack Smith Got a Late Start Investigating Trumpf C0RI0LANUS Sunday #38
It certainly contributed to the general cynicism that people feel toward democracy and politics. Intractable Sunday #39

Silent Type

(7,323 posts)
2. Might have helped if Garland had gone after trump earlier. Garland might have also understood what a chitshow
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 11:35 AM
Saturday

it would become.

While I believe trump is responsible for Jan 6th and can't believe people voted for him, I'm not sure there is evidence trump was "directly responsible."

lees1975

(6,100 posts)
6. Have you read the report of the House committee?
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:28 PM
Saturday

The evidence is quite clear that he called it together, promoted it and told the militants what he wanted.

Paladin

(28,971 posts)
4. +1000.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 11:56 AM
Saturday

Garland fucked up---but not enough to make me forego the opportunity to vote against trump.

lees1975

(6,100 posts)
10. But the failure to prosecute and convict him was a demonstration that one thing didn't matter.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:43 PM
Saturday

And that was the thing. If it mattered, he would have been at Leavenworth before the mid-term elections rolled around.

lees1975

(6,100 posts)
9. I don't know about that.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:41 PM
Saturday

The right went after the economy and the price of gas and groceries, and even though the presidents economic policy has no effect on either, they convinced enough voters to show up. The left went after Trump's fitness for office, and his criminal character. But they demonstrated no urgency with that because they let the states run their trials first, and the justice department did nothing, and it came out that they hadn't even pursued prosecution for over a year until public pressure forced them to. A small fraction of Democrats staying home would have made the difference and the fact that the news media seems loathe to even mention it tells me it is a bigger deal than they want us to know.

hay rick

(8,307 posts)
31. People who were upset at Garland's tardy prosecution were paying attention.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:26 PM
Saturday

People who were paying attention knew that they had to make an adult choice between an imperfect party, a dangerous buffoon, and agreeing to accept other people choosing the buffoon for them. Yes, there are people like that but I stand by my assertion that they are an irrelevantly small number.

I think two vastly greater factors were:
1. People who usually pay little attention but absorbed the 30,000 immigrant prisoner transgender surgery TV ads. It gave them a "cultural" reason to stay home. Ignoring this factor does not make it go away.
2. People who pay little attention and bathed in misinformation on TikTok.

Wiz Imp

(2,411 posts)
11. Right
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:46 PM
Saturday

I'm sure some did, but not enough to make a difference. To be clear, around 97% of registered voters actually voted so any turnout issues were related to people who never vote. There was not a significant amount of regular voters who stayed home.

lees1975

(6,100 posts)
14. More likke 89%. 13 million registered voters didn''t vote, and a higher percentage of Democrats than Republicans.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:14 PM
Saturday

Margins were narrow enough in enough swing states that a 1% swing would have made the difference in the electoral college. And the fact that the media, especially those on the more moderate to liberal side who are trying to protect Biden's legacy, won't mention this factor at all is evidence that was most definitely a factor. I'm one of those who saw that, regardless of the mixed messaging and the confusion,, the late change in candidates and the fear and pearl-clutching that Democrats do, I needed to make sure Trump didn't get in. But we could have put a stop to this and made the GOP nominate someone else out of their pitiful array of losers if we'd just taken advantage of the tools available at hand. And we didn't.

bottomofthehill

(8,876 posts)
35. Not sure where your numbers are coming from, there was a 64% voter turn out
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 04:31 PM
Saturday

Trump got just over 49 % of 64% so about 32% of eligible voters voted for trump VP Harris got 48 % of 64% roughly 31 percent and those too stupid to show up 36% making too stupid to vote the clear winner.
In 2020 there was almost 67% voter turnout. The highest in our nations history. So really we are wondering where the 3% went. Unfortunately, turn out was down in NY, MA, CA, Democratic strongholds where it may not have changed the electoral college count but would move the popular vote model.

gordianot

(15,535 posts)
7. Garland is totally at fault Trump should have been eliminated by 2022,
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:34 PM
Saturday

Without sanewashing that criminal who knows? The greatest failure of justice in our history.

Nigrum Cattus

(228 posts)
8. If he had been convicted -
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 12:35 PM
Saturday

He would not have been on the ballot.
Garland was a complete failure.
The next repub A.G. will be worse.

GoreWon2000

(1,076 posts)
12. Bush brothers and corrupt SCOTUS never held accountable for their 2000 election theft
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:01 PM
Saturday

The failure of dems to hold the Bush brothers and the corrupt repug SCOTUS majority accountable for their theft of the 2000 election has emboldened more repug election stealing and a more extreme repug SCOTUS majority which I think has caused a lot of Americans to give up on democracy. Garland's failure to hold Trump accountable for his use of the Bush brother's 2000 election theft road map in 2020 stands on the shoulders of the failure of dems to hold the Bush brothers and the corrupt repug SCOTUS majority accountable for 2000. Let's also ad in the disenfranchisement of 14 million dem Presidential primary voters in 2024 and you see that there's a clear pattern of not defending democracy despite claiming in 2024 to be the party defending democracy. I think enough voters looked at this bad track record and said "why should I bother to vote any more?"

orleans

(35,239 posts)
13. i think it was a factor that influenced a lot of people
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:13 PM
Saturday

and absolutely could have made a difference

while i was feeling hopeful about the future and kamala, and i was angry at magats and trump (and still am btw) and there was no way i was not going to vote against trump and every republican on my ballot i think there were plenty of people who were feeling completely discouraged about the upcoming election b/c trump wasn't held to account. so they washed their hands of the entire process

MangoMoose

(6 posts)
15. No.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:17 PM
Saturday

Merrick Garland is the biggest disgrace to Biden's legacy. Kamala should have been the AG, not VEEP. This country was never going to elect a Black WOMAN. Firstly, 27 states have turned women into LIVESTOCK. AND she was Black. When asked of the PR community in PA, what the Dems had to do to win back the PR vote that had voted for Biden. One gentleman said, Latino men will "NEVER EVER VOTE FOR A WOMAN." People voted for a RAPIST rather than vote for a woman. I blame Clooney and Reiner and Pelosi and every other dem who forced Biden out, they were afraid they'd lose the Congress. Maybe they would have, But Biden would have beat fatso. Prove me wrong.

3catwoman3

(25,662 posts)
21. "I blame Clooney and Reiner and Pelosi and every other dem who forced Biden out..
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:54 PM
Saturday

...they were afraid they'd lose the Congress."

Me, too. I don't think I will ever forgive them for the way they abandoned President Biden. As I've said in other threads, they threw him away like a used Kleenex.

All the admiration that was expressed after he stepped away rang so hollow. Where was all that support during the 3 1/2 years preceding this? HIs list of accomplishments is so LONG. No one has worked harder or longer for this country than Joe Biden. The top sucks at messaging.

There was no justifiable excuse for any Dem voter staying home. None, nada, zip, zilch.

3auld6phart

(1,304 posts)
18. Damn
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:31 PM
Saturday

Straight , can’t put all the blame on the RW maggot idiots., that you have fours of the orange freak and Apartheid 57 ( Heinz 57brand ). People that don’t vote should have nothing to say.

Beastly Boy

(11,305 posts)
20. Garland. He made them stay home. Just like Hillary made them do it in 2016.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:54 PM
Saturday

The damn learning curve. It's a real bitch sometimes. Thankfully, there is no shortage of directions to point fingers at.

Dave Id

(53 posts)
23. Failure to prosecute
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:56 PM
Saturday

Failure to prosecute should have been an incentive to vote, not not to.

the_sly_pig

(749 posts)
24. Honestly, there is plenty of blame to go 'round.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 01:57 PM
Saturday

Looking at various information outlets its clear that the Caucasian vote put trump over the top. However, NBC released a post-election poll with these results:

Trump won men 43/55
Harris won women 53/45

Trump won the whites 42/57
Harris won non whites 64/33

Trump won GenX 44/54
Trump won Boomers 49/50

Trump won the uneducated
Harris won B.A. and higher

Trump won Catholics and Protestants.

I don't have any reason to dispute these statistics. I am surprised by how many women voted for Trump. I feel absolutely they had the most to lose. You figure the stupid and the religious would vote for Trump, and I am disappointed in my fellow GenX'ers.

Everyone knew damn well that when Mueller abdicated that Trump was not going to be prosecuted. But to try and pin the election loss on the stay-at-homers? I don't think so.

If someone tells me I'm going to lose my rights, or my daughter is going to be made a second hand citizen, my first response is 'the F you say' and do everything in my power to prevent that from happening. And there is plenty of blame to go around.

But this poll says that 45% of women voted to make themselves less of a person. That is seriously effed up.

KS Toronado

(19,703 posts)
25. I don't believe that many voters stayed home
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:01 PM
Saturday

Remember before the election TSF said he already had all the votes he needed. Lots of people voting
down ballot but not for U.S. President was abnormally high this election. I think they cheated using
voting machines somehow.

Shame we don't have a few surveys in swing States how they voted in this election and if things don't
add up maybe we might be able to postpone our two presidents taking office Jan 20th.

We know they cheated, they always do.

DownriverDem

(6,679 posts)
26. It was MAGA repubs
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:01 PM
Saturday

who voted to not bring trump to trial after the House impeached him. Those voters last November were as ignorant as the MAGAs.

Martin Eden

(13,558 posts)
27. Makes no sense to me. Voters who wanted Trump in prison ...
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:13 PM
Saturday

... most definitely did NOT want him in the White House.

Seems to me they would be motivated to vote AGAINST him.

Orrex

(64,323 posts)
28. Those people must not have read the cheerleaders' thoughts on the matter
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:15 PM
Saturday

Garland did everything right in every way and worked with unprecedented speed; anyone who says otherwise or who points out Garland’s utter lack of substantive result must be mocked and ridiculed relentlessly.

DeeDeeNY

(3,578 posts)
29. Garland's problem was that he seemed afraid
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:19 PM
Saturday

that taking decisive action against Trump would somehow be construed as bias against Trump and Republicans. Even though decisive action was what this country desperately needed.
But any Democratic voter who stayed home from the election because of Garland would have to be an absolute moron.

lees1975

(6,100 posts)
34. Or uniformed and disillusioned by another departure from a clear, simple message.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 03:48 PM
Saturday

Garland communicated that Trump wasn't an existential threat to American democracy. And the lack of any kind of corrective action also communicated this.

Tweedy

(1,220 posts)
30. I think you mean the Mr. Musk's chief of staff's legal strategy of delay
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:21 PM
Saturday

and the Supreme Court’s month’s long delay.

yaesu

(8,354 posts)
32. Makes no sense but that seems to be the character of american voters these day, no sense. nt
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 02:33 PM
Saturday

CrispyQ

(38,570 posts)
33. Mostly it was morons who fell for bullshit issues that aren't really issues.
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 03:06 PM
Saturday

The trans issue. There was an survey that showed people thought 20% of the US population was trans when the number is really 1%. That's a HUGE difference in perception! Trump & Trump pacs spent 40% of their advertising budget the last two weeks of October on trans ads. Then there's the price of eggs when the economy is actually doing pretty good.

"As people do better, they start voting like Republicans - unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing." --Karl Rove


Looks like the repubs succeeded. Americans are too stupid for democracy.


pattyloutwo

(415 posts)
36. Sadly not a factor
Sat Dec 21, 2024, 08:34 PM
Saturday

In my opinion. It was a “vibe”, low information voters that listen to Joe Rogan. Most don’t watch or follow the news

C0RI0LANUS

(1,843 posts)
38. SC Jack Smith Got a Late Start Investigating Trumpf
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 01:58 AM
Sunday

"On 7 May 2018, Smith was named to a four-year term as chief prosecutor for the Kosovo Specialist Chambers in The Hague, investigating war crimes in the Kosovo War. He took up the post on 11 Sep 2018 and was appointed to a second term on 8 May 2022, before stepping down on 18 Nov 2022."

"Jack Smith worked initially from the Netherlands on the Trump dossier while recovering from a fractured leg, injured when he was struck by a scooter while cycling. By early Jan 2023, Smith had returned to the US."

"On 8 Jun 2023, a grand jury indicted Trump on seven federal criminal charges related to his handling of the classified documents."

USAG Merrick Garland specifically wanted the competent Jack Smith to prosecute the case against Trump but he had to wait until Jack Smith finished his term at the Hague.

Was Merrick Garland responsible for the lower Democratic Party turnout in 2024 for Harris/Walz than the 2020 turnout for Biden/Harris? This might have been a factor, but I am doubtful.

Hillary Clinton proved a woman could be POTUS when she won the popular vote in 2016 (but lost the Electoral College thanks to Russian interference and D/FBI James Comey's ill-advised comments). Barack Obama proved a man of color could be POTUS (twice).

The difference in the 2020 and 2024 turnout was the anti-war element of the Democratic Party who stayed home. They didn't vote for Trump or Jill Stein, they just abstained on 5 Nov. I wrote an OP months ago comparing 1968 to 2024 and the numbers were quite similar. Both incumbent parties had tremendous wins in 1964 and 2020, but lost the support of the anti-war Democrats in 1968 and 2024.

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Smith_(lawyer)

Intractable

(581 posts)
39. It certainly contributed to the general cynicism that people feel toward democracy and politics.
Sun Dec 22, 2024, 08:42 AM
Sunday

Just for posterity's sake, I'd like to hear Garland say at a press conference, "No one is above the law," just one more time before he goes.

The sincerity by which he says it gives me chills ... because it is so obviously, manifestly untrue.

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