Also see post 6.

but lots of unfair things are allowed to happen. He does not specifically say if he would outlaw transwomen is women's sports though.

Trans is an adjective. Transwomen isn’t a thing. The word is “women”.

They use the phrase transwoman and transman. Unless something has changed in the last few days.

"Price of eggs", "Kitchen table issues", "Working class".

Flame away.

Newsom's position. However there are restrictions here on DU about this topic so you may not get much (vocal) support here either ......

EOM

No flames from me.

A trans female who begins tradition BEFORE puberty with estrogen injections and male hormone blockers, will never get the muscle strength and bone density that gives cis males their advantage over females. I fully agree that it's inappropriate for someone who transitioned male to female AFTER puberty, because they could have some of that extra strength and bone density.

But not my friends daughter. How progressive.

In a new study, researchers at the University of São Paulo assessed the strength and aerobic ability of transgender women undergoing long-term hormone therapy as well as those of cisgender men and women matched by age and physical activity levels. The researchers found that transgender women had about 40% greater muscle mass than cisgender women. Moreover, they were about 19% stronger and had 20% greater cardiopulmonary capacity. By current NCAA and Olympic rules, these women are allowed to compete in women’s sporting events.

https://bigthink.com/health/truth-about-transgender-womens-athletic-ability/

If you think that there are enough trans athletes to form transgender leagues, then unfortunately you have bought into propaganda.

strength and muscle mass advantage over cisgender women. If not leagues, perhaps transgender events in the Olympics and world championships with transgenders competing against other transgenders.

What's your solution?

then you have 100% bought into propaganda.

Also, "transgender" isn't a noun, so I would avoid calling people "a transgender" or talk about "transgenders competing against other transgenders." Such phraseology can make the user sound like a bigot.

https://glaad.org/reference/trans-terms/

As for a solution: If there are only 10 trans people competing amongst 500,000-plus CIS athletes in the NCAA, I'd argue that that is a not a problem, and therefore doesn't require a solution.

That is the point.

Do we even know if there is a difference between a kid using hormone blockers and their teammates relative to the sport they are playing. I was a large athletic girl when I was young and I could often whomp other females in different sports. Should I have been forced out?

If she tried playing against male nba stars, they would push her out of the way easily

Less than 10 out of 500,000.

I am sure that people eating their neighbor's pets is an 80/20 "issue," or maybe a 90/10 "issue." We had better come out against immigrants eating pets right away! You know, to have viable candidates.

that he cited the the GOP's 'transgender prisoners' ad was the most effective of the past campaign. Now that was not specifically about transgender women in women's sports but anything involving transgender issues seems toxic to most of the voters.

Also, while you and I may agree that 'it is not an issue' some voters seem obsessed with it, no? If enough of them think it is an issue then it becomes an issue.

So whatever batshit crazy ads the right wing runs, we have to take it seriously? God help us.

Haitian immigrants are not eating their neighbors pets.

If Trump convinces 51% of the public to believe that to be true, does that mean we need to say "well, OK, I guess they are eating the pets?"

The issue is not "transgender," the issue is Republican bigotry, fear mongering and lying. Another issue is the Democrats who are triangulating, compromising, running scared, and pandering for the sake of advancing their careers. That is vastly more common than trans athletes being any sort of issue. Less than 10 out of 500,000 NCAA athletes are transgender. That is 0.00002% - it might as well be zero.

Fill Michigan stadium in Ann Arbor 5 times over, and in that massive horde just try to find 10 people. Needle in a haystack. One needle in 10 haystacks, maybe?

Wouldn't it be great if only 0.00002% of Democratic party politicians felt the need to pander to the right wing and play bipartisan footsie?

It is not true that "anything involving transgender issues seems toxic to most of the voters." It just is not true. It is true that right wing demagoguery - largely unchallenged by the Democrats - had some effect. The answer to that is to fight back, not to cave in.

There is no issue with transgender athletes, there are no Haitians eating pets, there were no WMDs in Iraq, the 2020 election was not stolen, babies are not being killed after birth, that Obama was not born in Kenya, grade school children are not coming home a different gender, and on and on and on.

But yeah,he will definitely be running for Pres in 2028.

should not be erased, should be allowed to be who they are, should have respect and allowed to life, liberty and the pursuit as much as any citizen here... that being said, we all live with some restrictions in this Country, whether fair or not.... this issue of sports is not worth losing the Country over... not easy for me to say and I do care... we must live to fight another day

even within Cis people there is a very wide range of ability, body type, strength, etc...

Bigots -- mostly GOPers -- gonna hate, and it worked for trump.

I do think it should be left to each sport's governing group. But appears we are past that now in that several states are getting into blanket bans.

No disrespect intended. It's the nature of politics.

Newsome has featured an attack on a tiny minority of people and played into the republican/ nazi- like zeitgeist. And why is he talking to Charlie Kirk who is a fascist and an antisemite? If Newsome wants to move to the middle to run for president he doesn't have to do so in this repulsive way.

It's all about the testosterone levels.

I still DGAF is transwomen use the women's bathroom. No transwoman is in there to rape bio-women. But I DGAF if bio-women use the men's bathroom, either.

They are called Openweight.

different muscle mass or physiques and leave genetalia out of it.

SO SICK OF divisive false dichotomy EITHER-OR thinking. Instead look at what the underlying question really is and respond to that. Why be stuck on rigid binary male vs. female categorization. .... if our culture is moving beyond that?????

Even Obama and Biden moderated a bit for their presidential campaigns.

If it is for social/cultural reasons, then transgender women should be allowed to compete in "women only" events. If it is for physiological reasons, that reflect gender based biological differences that affect athletic performance, then the matter becomes scientific at root.

I am not well versed on the facts as they relate to this matter. I don't know to what, if any, extent a transgender woman retains male physiology, after fully transitioning, that might give her a biological performance edge over those who are female from birth.

It is foolish to ignore that, in our culture at least, women compete in "leagues of their own" primarily because, in most coed match ups, men (in general) have a physiological competitive advantage over women. Women are not legally barred from competing along side men in professional sports, but they rarely do so. When they do, it is often in very specific roles, such as pitchers in baseball, or kickers in football for example. Far as I know the NBA, for example, has no provision preventing women from playing on its teams. But the WNBA provides an arena where women can excel in that sport

I am open to considering scientifically based arguments for disallowing transgender females from participating in competitive women's sports. In other areas of life however, I believe treating them as anything other than female is blatant discrimination. As an obvious example, transgender women should never be forced to use Male public bathrooms.

Less than 10 NCAA athletes out of 500,000 are transgender.

0.00002%

Republicans have manufactured an "issue" out of thin air and here we have Democrats taking it seriously and debating how to "solve" this imaginary problem.

It's "an issue" that should be totally irrelevant to 99.9% of the public. But it isn't. It isn't because Republicans exploit fear and hatred. And the fact that they successfully exploit fear and hatred regarding this completely inconsequential issue has contributed to horrendous consequences that reach around the globe.

As you say, "Less than 10 NCAA athletes out of 500,000 are transgender." That means a tiny number of transgender athletes will have to deal with the loss of their personal dream to compete in sports at the highest competitive level, if it is determined that their prior gender leaves them with an unfair advantage against other women in sporting events.

By your expressed logic that essentially is an imaginary problem. Not to those women of course, but to the nation as a whole.There is non discriminatory logic for taking that position on it's face, and overwhelming political logic for doing so. I support Governor Newsom.

A tiny number will just have to deal with it? That is a complete betrayal of everything the Democratic party stands for.

All of the people Republicans attack represent minorities. But if the majority has been whipped up by bigoted demagoguery, then we just abandon them so we can win?

that transgender women retain some biological competitive advantage over other women in sporting events. If not, I could not and would never support preventing them from competing.

I wrestled one year in Junior High School. I had to wrestle inside my weight class. I couldn't wrestle against boys who were in a lower weight class. Boxing has weight classes also. Were that not the case a 150 pound boxer would never stand a chance against a trained 220 pound boxer. A heavy weight boxer is forbidden from competing for the light weight boxing title, period. That is not discrimination.

Why not let all women and all men compete together in the same sporting events, and just let the best man or woman win? You know why.

The right wingers made this an issue, out of thin air, and the only reason that the public bought into it is because the Republicans fear mongered about it, and the Democrats have not fought back. Worse, many Democrats have given it fuel.

The right wingers have led you to be arguing abiut this non-issue. That is a win for them. That is all they were after, to get us onto their playing field and playing by their rules.

Yes, if there were hordes of transgender people trying to game the system in order to unfairly win athletic contests, and invading women's restrooms to rape people, and if kids were going to grade school in the morning and coming home castrated - then, yes, we might have an issue.

But none of that is true. And that is the "issue" what the Republicans are in fact saying. You give it legitimacy with your "can it scientifically be determined that transgender women retain some biological competitive advantage over other women" stuff.

Once you are in power you can set the terms.

Out of over 500,000 NCAA athletes there are fewer than 10 who are trans. And I think it would be safe to assume that not a single one of those people went through everything involved in their transition just to play sports for a couple of years with an advantage.

I'm honestly kind of torn on this "issue", from what I've read trans women may have some physical advantage, yet there are always going to be people born who are naturally bigger/stronger/faster. Plus, even if you're one of those lucky ones you don't get to the top of your sport without a tremendous amount of training and practice.

So, I still haven't really decided what my position is on this, except that the GQP is using it to huge advantage to divide the country and rile up their base.

than I do from actual athletes?

And, pound-for-pound, politicians are way more wordy than athletes.

I'm talking about transgender issues in general, not just in college sports. So Dems with future aspirations are "nuancing" their stance on certain trans issues. I don't think this will take trans issues off the table for Dems to get bashed on. But, that's the tack that Dems are taking anyway.

I'm not sure I believe trans issues were that big of a decisive factor. But, that's a bullet point in the post-mortem that Dems are addressing.

It's disheartening to me that an inclusive position on trans people was sufficient to push independents to the right and away from voting for Dems, but the openly expressed Nazi sympathies, pledges to abandon European allies and embrace totalitarians and the destruction of social security and Medicare wasn't sufficient to push independents to the left and away from voting for Repubs.

How disgusting.

It is not true that "an inclusive position on trans people was sufficient to push independents to the right and away from voting for Dems." It is just not true. Damn the right wing propaganda is powerful. The solution is not to "nuance our stance" in response to bat shit right wing propaganda, the solution is to take a strong stand and fight back.

to make you want to vote for him, huh?

there is not one who believes that a trans athlete should be participating in women’s sports. They all believe that biologically they have an unfair advantage. But otherwise they stand for equal rights for the trans community. I someone feel that this is a sticking point for many Dems and Independents.

"NO BIGOTRY/INSENSITIVITY

Members are expected to respect diversity and demonstrate an appropriate level of sensitivity when discussing related topics. Racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, or other forms of bigoted intolerance are not permitted. When highlighting bigoted comments by a public figure, members should take care to avoid the impression that they agree with those comments.

For your information, our definition of transphobia includes, but is not limited to: Misgendering, deadnaming, or otherwise refusing to recognize a trans person's gender identity; Arguing that trans people are not "real" men or women; Arguing that trans people should not have the same rights as cis people -- for example, the right to use public restrooms or play sports that match their gender identity; Arguing that there is any scientific basis for discriminating against trans people."

You should warn them if they come here that some topics are off limits for differing opinions.

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