Why not occupy all of Syria, make settlements and call it Sovereign Israel?

Such would be a great benefit for the non-Islamist Syrian people, especially the minority populations of Druze, kurds, Christians, and others. The Druze villages in the Golan have already chosen to be under Israeli protection.

Including non-sensical territorial expansion. The argument: terrorists are attacking us. Solution: Expand settlements so more people are in harm's way. Clearly, Israel's excuse is a bold-faced lie.

Under Israeli protection, like Gaza and the West Bank? What a colossal load of bullshit.

The occupation is illegal, as the article states. This is a criminal action.

This was affirmed by the Biden Administration.

The Golan is not the West Bank.

those pesky Muslims just won't behave until most of them are gone, and the remaining ones corralled into special zones made just for them.

You know what would be great... if after that we sent the rest of them to special schools in order to civilize them...

Perhaps we should have taken Iraq and made it the 51st state.

I'll take my 10 bucks now!

Netanyahu just needs to figure out how to get rid of the citizens there.

and certainly in Bibi's mind.

Neither the UN nor the international community has recognized that annexation. As for the U.S. ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golan_Heights

Emphasis added by nmmi

The essense of the Jerusalem Post article:


And now Israel is occupying the buffer zone - a small (about the size of the Gaza strip) formerly demilitarized strip (that was patrolled by the U.N.) between Israeli-occupied/annexed Golan Heights and Syria. Supposedly temporarily but I'm not buying that anymore.

And Mount Hermon, the highest point in the region. They aren't going to give that up either.

... That the six Druze villages in the Golan Heights voted to be part of Israel...

They are the only villages in the Golan.

That's not a "vote to be part of Israel"; it's minority deciding it works for them personally. It's not as if they had the chance to vote for the Israeli military to leave.

Had consensus.

. . . Israel will respect and protect the Druze villages. The same cannot be said for the Islamists who are in Syria. Their villages being annexed to Israel is a good thing. A really good thing. Might be nice to try to see past your Israel-hate for a moment and recognize that.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/fearing-islamist-rebels-syrian-druze-village-calls-to-be-annexed-to-israel-calling-it-the-lesser-evil/

That is not "6 villages voted". It "might be nice" if you didn't make kneejerk accusations of "Israel-hate" about DUers.

What you're advocating is colonialism.

. . . but we've had conversations before.

There's a video. There are witnesses. This happened. Or, prove me wrong.

See, here's the weird thing: If the village voted to be annexed to Israel, it's not colonialism. That's a definite knee jerk response. If they do, and I'm pretty sure that they do, want to be part of Israel because they know the outcome of staying part of Syria under an Islamist regime that doesn't see Druze as a legitimate part of Islam, and it doesn't take a lot of imagination to imagine the results of that, any humanitarian person should be all for that. But it is Israel's hate that makes people want to negate their choices and call it colonialism. It takes blind hatred of Israel to knee-jerk everything Israel is doing in the most negative way possible. Do you do that? I'll let you answer, but I've seen it over and over.

Israel is on the side of good here. They are in the process of remaking the Middle East into a better place. And they are doing so in response to being attacked on at least four fronts. Do you negate their right to defend themselves? Do you negate the right of Israel to exist? Then you are on the side of the terrorists and Iran. Is that wise? I cannot see any world where that has a good outcome.

A country that, at the very least, is engaging in ethnic cleansing is not on the side of good. And before you try and say that's not true, by their own admission Israel has said that they are doing as much:
In January 2024, Israel was trying to negotiate moving all the Palestinians to at least two African countries: Rwanda and Congo. Lest you think this is something made up by "anti-Semites" and "Israeli-haters", this "plan" has been floated and supported by the Religious Zionism and Otzma Yehudit parties as party policy, and specifically supported by Intelligence Minister Gila Gamliel, Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, among others as reported in the The Times of Israel and Haaretz.
There have also been reports of other African countries, and even countries in South America that have been mentioned. None of those countries have been identified, so it's not a certainty, unlike Rwanda which says the turned down Israel.

The Side of Good generally does not shoot a six year old girl in a car with a sniper (Hind Rajib), shoot civilians waving white flags, block and bomb aid trucks, etc. But, if you can find those 'Side of Good' that does murder 6-year olds trying to get assistance (that we have on a phone call to emergency services) in February 2024, shoot unarmed civilians waving white flags, and starving people, please share.
In the 90s, these actions were considered war crimes in Bosnia -- the Serbs and Croats were not considered on the Side of Good.

Some have called what Israel is doing a genocide. That is open for debate, but Sandrine Irankunda, an ethnic Tutsi who survived the Rwandan Genocide of the 90s says it looks an awful lot like a genocide to her. That the Prime Minister Netanyahu, and others like Itamar Ben-Gvir (an apologist for Baruch Goldstein) made the call to Amalek makes what is happening questionable. Even Alan Dershowitz finds the evoking of Amalek troubling and unacceptable -- and has held that opinion for decades.

I would also add, that I have seen several for military officers say what is Israel is doing looks to them like Israel is not trying to truly contain the situation. In war, when you take a city, you control it then move on. By getting control, it prevents the enemy from circling back. Israel is not controlling, they're attacking, moving on, eventually Hamas returns to that area and Israel levels it again. What Israel is doing is not consistent with what armies do to prevent massive bloodletting.

Would also add, having been living in Korea and Japan for the last 26 years, Japanese news has been covering since the early 70s Israeli kidnappings of farmers on the southern border of Lebanon. These people are Christian and Moslem. The Israelis have, over the last half-century been accused of kidnapping thousands, most are never seen again. Some that are seen again, are found dead.

Last edited Sun Dec 15, 2024, 10:21 PM - Edit history (1)

The link of the image is: https://embassies.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Maps/Maps/Golan-Heights dot jpg

Odd that something from embassies.gov.il has a disclaimer in the bottom left corner that

    "This map is for illustrative purposes only and should not be considered authoritative"

The mileage/km lines at the lower left are very interesting - this is quite a small area.

The buffer zone is the thin gray-white striped strip that contains Quneitra as one of its cities. In area it is about the same size as the Gaza Strip.

I believe the big blue area is the Golan Heights that Israel occupied in the 6-day war and annexed in 1981. (There might have been some adjustments after the 1973 war).

Somebody in another thread thought the blue area was water, but no, I'm sure enough of the area's geography about that, anyway the blue area has rivers and towns in it. The Sea of Galilee on the map is real water.

The greenish gray area to the west is Israel from 1948 or whenever until June 1967, and is the internationally-recognized Israel.

The map, or I, could be wrong -- for example, I read that Mount Hermon was beyond the buffer zone. But on this map, it's in the blue area, at the very top of it, inside Israel-annexed Golan ...

=====================================================

From the Times of israel article link in #9 above
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/fearing-islamist-rebels-syrian-druze-village-calls-to-be-annexed-to-israel-calling-it-the-lesser-evil/


I don't see Hader on the map, unless Hamat-Gader, at the very bottom of the blue area, is it.

Every day I run into faux-Democrats who claim to have withheld their vote from Harris because they didn't to vote for "the bad cop who funds genocide."

Without even addressing that ridiculous accusation, do they seriously imagine that Trump will act to rein in Netanyahu?

Some assume that if the current crop of politicians isn't doing exactly what they expected, the other lot will do it?

Votes aren't that powerful, nor are the new crop of politicians you just voted in mind readers or people who actually care why they were voted in.

News flash! Some politicians actually tell lies just to get your vote!
Works every time, so why not?

In the history of human civilization, my ideal candidate has never held office anywhere, so people who hold out for that perfect fit glass slipper candidate are simply giving themselves an excuse to do nothing, while reserving the option to wag their fingers later and insist that they told us so.

give me a second... oh i know... Lebensraum

what is so special about the Golan Heights anyway? please tell me....

Either Lebensraum as you suggest or . . .

A library dispute!
Disagreement between those who read the Koran and the Bible, perhaps - my Holy Book is better than yours?

Allowing an enemy a place to observe and fire rockets and artillery with accuracy

Does no one remember how things got here?

nt

Land Grabbers gonna grab land!

Always been this way.

It’s a land grab by genocide and war crimes by the thousands.

Israel is the occupying force. A brutal settler, colonial, apartheid regime on course of becoming a pariah state for genocide, collective punishment and the butchering of thousands of children.

May Israel receive her Karma a thousand fold for this epic savageness!

But few see that, and no one knows how to turn this around.

This too was a land grab and genocide on a much larger scale. Human nature.

Europeans invading America, Canada, Australia, New Zealand.
Each was accompanied by a lot of violence and near extermination of pre-exiting native peoples.

There is a reason those countries all speak predominantly English.

Because this thread is about Israel’s land grabs. Personally I find the others just as repulsive and wrong.

Are you trying to justify it because others have done it and it’s “just human nature”?

Pretty lame

It's a vicious cycle.

It’s happened before so that makes it ok.

Go away.

it shouldn't get to do what ever the hell it wants to either, ie like the bullying, illegal West Bank Settlements.

Hamas, and Hezbolah are terrorist groups, do you not agree? Return the hostages!
And some of Bibi's actions in this war are overkill! Trying block aid, and more.
Blood on all their hands.

How about all the Arab States ganging up on Israel? That wasn't right.

I realize that it's so complicated. People did get pushed out in it initial creation, yes?
Could it have been done differently? Idk.
I remember briefly reading that Ben Gurion (Israeli hero) wanted it to be else, but in a few quick Google searches found nothing.

And Bibi's idea of sending Palestians to African countries? He has no right to do that! Palestians have lived in their area for millennia, too.

I’m specifically talking about the colonization Israel has engaged in since 1950’s. Amnesty International has numerous reports with the details and you can easily find it on their website.

I think Hamas and Hezbolah are resistance fighters.
Yes, hostages need to be returned, but so do the thousands of Palestinians (some are children) held by Israel that have been incarcerated for extremely minor infractions for years without due process.

I’ve read everything I can find documented by well known and reputable Human Rights organizations, and that is how my opinions have formed.

I don’t think it’s complicated, just once glance at a territory comparison map of land inIsrael from the 1950’s until now seems to tell the entire story.

The gang up of Arab states is understandable considering Israel’s well documented and stated plans for “Greater Israel” expansion into their territories.

Again, these are opinions I stand by, based on information I researched from Human Rights groups.

After WW2, the world agreed that this system wasn't sustainable anymore, hence the UN Charter.

I guess we will now get to see what things are like with that little piece of international law no longer operative. Could be fun I guess.

The Assad regime's demise is a blessing.