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mahatmakanejeeves

(61,657 posts)
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 03:17 PM Nov 21

Mysterious chemical byproduct in U.S. tap water finally identified

Source: Washington Post

Mysterious chemical byproduct in U.S. tap water finally identified
Scientists discover formula and structure of chlorine-related molecule and urge tests for possible toxicity.

By Carolyn Y. Johnson and Joel Achenbach
November 21, 2024 at 2:00 p.m. EST

A mysterious byproduct of a chemical used to disinfect the tap water of about one-third of Americans has finally been identified, and the international research team behind the discovery is advocating rapid assessment of its potential toxicity.

The research, reported Thursday in the journal Science, does not claim that tap water containing the byproduct is unsafe to drink or that the finding represents any kind of emergency. All water, including bottled water, contains contaminants. (1)

But the discovery of a new and previously unknown chemical, called chloronitramide anion, could have implications for municipal water systems that use a class of chlorine-based disinfectants called chloramines. For decades these disinfectants, derived from the mixture of chlorine and ammonia, have been added to many municipal water supplies to kill bacteria and prevent waterborne illnesses.

“We need to investigate it. We don’t know the toxicity,” said environmental engineer Julian Fairey, an associate professor at the University of Arkansas and lead author of the paper. “This work was 40 years in the making in terms of trying to identify the compound, and now that we have identified it, we can delve into how toxic is this thing.”

{snip}

By Carolyn Y. Johnson
Carolyn Johnson is a science reporter. She previously covered the business of health and the affordability of health care to consumers. follow on X @carolynyjohnson

By Joel Achenbach
Joel Achenbach covers science and politics for the National desk. He has been a staff writer for The Post since 1990. follow on X @JoelAchenbach

(1) https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adk6749

Read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/science/2024/11/21/tap-water-byproduct-chloronitramide-anion/

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Mysterious chemical byproduct in U.S. tap water finally identified (Original Post) mahatmakanejeeves Nov 21 OP
I'm sure RFK Jr. will take care of it. sinkingfeeling Nov 21 #1
He's probably going to outlaw water Farmer-Rick Nov 21 #10
Brawndo...it has what the body needs... Wounded Bear Nov 21 #17
It's official. Idiocracy. live love laugh Nov 21 #19
Everybody will have to get their drinking water straight from a creek, river or lake. tanyev Nov 21 #20
Watch out for them upstream beavers.. yorkster Nov 21 #21
Actually, I would not drink city water womanofthehills Nov 22 #40
My mother-in-law's well was far from any contamination. Igel Nov 22 #44
The FDA, USDA, HHS, EPA have two months to solve before this issue is swept under the carpet in 2025. C0RI0LANUS Nov 21 #2
Won't be swept. Might be used as excuse to stop fluoridation & maybe even chlorination. Might be neglected tho Bernardo de La Paz Nov 21 #3
Trump rolled water regulations back to 1942 levels last term. live love laugh Nov 21 #11
The US will soon again be Dicken's London or Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle." C0RI0LANUS Nov 21 #15
"Hell with the lid off", as was said about (IIRC) Bozeman MT, in the days of freely-polluting smelters. nt eppur_se_muova Nov 21 #18
Trump's America will gut the EPA, FDA, HHS, DOE, OSHA and the US will become India. C0RI0LANUS Nov 21 #23
This is how Pittsburgh looked about 100 years ago FakeNoose Nov 22 #43
Good grief. And here is an industrial zone in China eight years ago, possibly in Tang Shan. C0RI0LANUS Nov 23 #45
Our environmental protections have saved our cities, and most of our rural areas too FakeNoose Nov 23 #46
Great point. Thank you for that. Just think, GOP science is two months away. C0RI0LANUS Nov 21 #4
"mixture of chlorine and ammonia"? I'm not a scientist, JoseBalow Nov 21 #5
It makes chloramine, NH2Cl. Toxic, but unstable to long-term storage. eppur_se_muova Nov 21 #6
So it's OK to drink, but not to breathe? JoseBalow Nov 21 #7
As I said -- unstable. eppur_se_muova Nov 21 #8
Well, don't mix ammonia-containing cleaner and bleach or other chlorinating agents at home. eppur_se_muova Nov 21 #16
I think I'll stick to cleaning with vinegar :) JoseBalow Nov 21 #24
so vinegar isn't a chemical? Kali Nov 21 #31
I'm hoping it's harder to poison myself with it JoseBalow Nov 21 #34
Here is an answer from my chemist husband. yellow dahlia Nov 21 #9
Actually, it gives off chloramine and dichloramine, and sometime nitrogen trichloride (explosive liquid). eppur_se_muova Nov 21 #14
More from my geeky chemist husband - yellow dahlia Nov 21 #22
Yes, I think I may have been thinking of that JoseBalow Nov 21 #25
Our bodies also need cyanide in small amounts in order to keep us healthy. cstanleytech Nov 21 #29
I thought cyanide was a deadly poison JoseBalow Nov 21 #30
Deadly only if we take to much for our bodies to handle but that's true of many things. cstanleytech Nov 21 #32
This message was self-deleted by its author eppur_se_muova Nov 21 #12
*private well has entered the chat* eggplant Nov 21 #13
I hope there is no fracking nearby! JoseBalow Nov 21 #26
lol, nope. east coast rural, mostly dairy cows. eggplant Nov 21 #27
*Arsenic waves* speak easy Nov 22 #35
Thankfully, not an issue eggplant Nov 22 #38
My well water is excellent too - 240 deep womanofthehills Nov 22 #41
300' here. eggplant Nov 22 #42
Chlorine is correlated SidneyR Nov 21 #28
It is also something we need in the form of salt. cstanleytech Nov 21 #33
We know water from any municipal source here in the USA will kill any fish you put it in. Ligyron Nov 22 #36
We do? bagimin Nov 22 #37
Probably or using something to detoxify the chlorine and ammonia combo. Ligyron Nov 22 #39
What's in your Water? Oneear Nov 23 #47

tanyev

(44,753 posts)
20. Everybody will have to get their drinking water straight from a creek, river or lake.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:56 PM
Nov 21

Natural’s so much healthier, you know.

womanofthehills

(9,339 posts)
40. Actually, I would not drink city water
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 04:32 PM
Nov 22

Thankfully, I have my own well and I'm in the Mountains so not any industry to pollute it.

Otherwise, one of the cleanest waters in US is from Arkansas - Mountain Valley Spring Water - best in green glass jars so no plastic in water.

Igel

(36,240 posts)
44. My mother-in-law's well was far from any contamination.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 10:13 PM
Nov 22

I stopped drinking it when possible. Make a cup of black tea in it and it formed a kind of slick from the tannin and acids in the tea reacting with the metallic cations and other "stuff" in the water.

A lot of well water drawn from the "right" aquifers are still high in As and some heavy metals. (In fact, when you read EPA analyses of X number of water sources and the percentage of those with high concentrations of specific Bad Things, a lot of those draw water from wells. Ground water has its own set of problems.)

C0RI0LANUS

(1,884 posts)
2. The FDA, USDA, HHS, EPA have two months to solve before this issue is swept under the carpet in 2025.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 03:33 PM
Nov 21


Bernardo de La Paz

(51,286 posts)
3. Won't be swept. Might be used as excuse to stop fluoridation & maybe even chlorination. Might be neglected tho
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 04:23 PM
Nov 21

Seems tailor made for ReffnKjr to interfere with. He wants to stop fluoridation, like the whacko John Birchers of the 1950s. He interfered in Samoa and children died.

live love laugh

(14,560 posts)
11. Trump rolled water regulations back to 1942 levels last term.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:33 PM
Nov 21

He allowed corporations to dump their chemicals into the waters after Obama had enacted protections.

Whatever they find, it won’t matter because he’ll allow more pollution for profit.

eppur_se_muova

(37,670 posts)
18. "Hell with the lid off", as was said about (IIRC) Bozeman MT, in the days of freely-polluting smelters. nt
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:50 PM
Nov 21

C0RI0LANUS

(1,884 posts)
23. Trump's America will gut the EPA, FDA, HHS, DOE, OSHA and the US will become India.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 06:40 PM
Nov 21

Here is Delhi, India with an astronomically devastating AQI.





Citizens complain of daily health problems like asthma, acne, and psoriasis, exacerbated by the toxic smog.


The toxic smog around Delhi is perennial.


Source:

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/delhi/delhi-air-pollution-live-updates-toxic-air-aqi-level-grap-4-restrictions-schools-private-offices/liveblog/115508462.cms

C0RI0LANUS

(1,884 posts)
45. Good grief. And here is an industrial zone in China eight years ago, possibly in Tang Shan.
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 12:47 AM
Nov 23


"Nearly two billion children – about 93 percent of the world’s children under the age of 15 – breathe toxic, putrid air that’s so polluted it puts their health and well-being at serious risk, a new report said.

Many of the children die: The United Nations' WHO estimates 600,000 children died in 2016 from lower respiratory infections caused by dirty air."

Source:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/10/30/air-pollution-93-percent-worlds-children-breath-polluted-air/1811587002/

FakeNoose

(36,025 posts)
46. Our environmental protections have saved our cities, and most of our rural areas too
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 10:45 AM
Nov 23

That's not happening in China, and this photo shows how they are suffering as a result.

JoseBalow

(5,656 posts)
5. "mixture of chlorine and ammonia"? I'm not a scientist,
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 04:58 PM
Nov 21

but isn't that the recipe for mustard gas, or some other kind of similar toxic agent?

eppur_se_muova

(37,670 posts)
6. It makes chloramine, NH2Cl. Toxic, but unstable to long-term storage.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:01 PM
Nov 21

Mustard gas -- actually a liquid -- is made from ethylene gas and sulfur dichloride.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustard_gas

eppur_se_muova

(37,670 posts)
8. As I said -- unstable.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:31 PM
Nov 21

My bad -- I read the OP too quickly and dropped a couple of syllables.

The toxic species is NITROchloramide anion. This is a somewhat unexpected by-product; it is not added directly or deliberately.

eppur_se_muova

(37,670 posts)
16. Well, don't mix ammonia-containing cleaner and bleach or other chlorinating agents at home.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:48 PM
Nov 21

That will create dangerous, toxic fumes.

Ammonia and chlorine are mixed together as needed in an on-site reactor and trace amounts used to kill microorganisms in the water, preventing the spread of microbe-borne diseases. Do not try this at home.

JoseBalow

(5,656 posts)
24. I think I'll stick to cleaning with vinegar :)
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 07:07 PM
Nov 21

I generally try to avoid all chemicals when possible. I'd hate to accidentally poison myself, or my dog

Kali

(55,878 posts)
31. so vinegar isn't a chemical?
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 09:17 PM
Nov 21

I find it to be much more irritating to eyes, nose, skin than chlorine bleach. go figure.

yellow dahlia

(183 posts)
9. Here is an answer from my chemist husband.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:32 PM
Nov 21

You might be thinking of mixing ammonia and bleach.

There is a common warning that people not mix ammonia with chlorine bleach when doing household cleaning. This can give off chlorine gas, which can be deadly.

I don't get why someone decided to use chlorine gas and ammonia in drinking water, but it sounds like you are not alone in questioning it.

eppur_se_muova

(37,670 posts)
14. Actually, it gives off chloramine and dichloramine, and sometime nitrogen trichloride (explosive liquid).
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 05:43 PM
Nov 21

Mixing ACID and bleach generates chlorine gas.

Chloramine is toxic, like most disinfectants, but is used to disinfect water supplies because it slowly decomposes. If done right, very little remains in clean tap water by the time it reaches the consumer.

JoseBalow

(5,656 posts)
25. Yes, I think I may have been thinking of that
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 07:10 PM
Nov 21

I try to avoid all of that stuff, just because I don't always know what I'm doing

cstanleytech

(27,183 posts)
32. Deadly only if we take to much for our bodies to handle but that's true of many things.
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 09:32 PM
Nov 21

For example you can actually die from drinking to much water to fast.

Response to mahatmakanejeeves (Original post)

eggplant

(4,005 posts)
38. Thankfully, not an issue
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 12:00 PM
Nov 22

We're (a) not near there, and (b) have our water tested. But the point still stands.

womanofthehills

(9,339 posts)
41. My well water is excellent too - 240 deep
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 04:39 PM
Nov 22

The water is coming down from the Mountains - no chemicals. I'm in the middle of NM - no industry, lots of ranches. All the fracking in NM is in SE next to Texas, right above Mexico.I would never live there.

eggplant

(4,005 posts)
42. 300' here.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 05:22 PM
Nov 22

We have to filter out sulfur, but that's it. We only learned of the depth after we had a pump failure and they pulled it out to replace it. Good lord that was a lot of hose. And apparently it didn't have sulfur issues until someone (nobody knows who) sunk a new well and hit a deposit, contaminating the aquifer. Everyone was pretty pissed off, but we plumbed in a whole-house in-line filter and problem solved.

The other thing that is odd around here is the randomness of how deep you have to go. A house three doors down dug six feet and hit an artesian spring. Go figure.

Ligyron

(7,910 posts)
39. Probably or using something to detoxify the chlorine and ammonia combo.
Fri Nov 22, 2024, 02:33 PM
Nov 22

Did it for years in my tank, make a mistake and people have lost some very rare and expensive fish.

Oneear

(108 posts)
47. What's in your Water?
Sat Nov 23, 2024, 12:48 PM
Nov 23

Donald Trump wants to remove the Fluoride in My Town of Cape Girardeau, MO, with Water Pipes from 1914, which Lead as Feeder Lines into Homes, Schools, Businesses, Hospitals, and Nursing Homes. The Question is, with Donald Trump Wanting to defund Water Infrastructure and the Government removing Chemicals from Drinking Water that are outdated, this could make the Water pipe leach
off Lead and other Heavy Metals into the Drinking Water System.

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