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Dem_in_Nebr.

(383 posts)
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 10:09 AM 15 hrs ago

He Predicted America's Crisis Sixteen Years Ago, to the Year. His Database Says It Ends Three Ways.

I found this on Substack. it's a bit of a long read but its worth it. Turchin used mathematical models developed for animal populations and applied it to 10,000 years of human civilizations. His results mimic what we are facing today,


You probably watched the fireworks. Two hundred and fifty years of the American experiment deserves fireworks, and for a few hours over the holiday weekend the sky looked the way it is supposed to look. But you saw the other pictures too, because everyone did. Roughly four hundred men in khakis and white masks marched through Washington to a drumbeat on the nation’s birthday, carrying flags most Americans thought belonged to museums. The next morning in Memphis, National Guard troops on domestic deployment killed a man in the early hours. And in the days before the holiday, the fight over voting rules froze the House of Representatives so completely that the Speaker gave up and sent everyone home early.

If you are like most people I hear from, you carry a question now that you don’t say out loud at dinner, because saying it feels like betraying something. The question is: how does this end?

I want to introduce you to a man who answered that question in writing, in one of the world’s most respected scientific journals, sixteen years ago. Not with opinion. With mathematics. And I want you to hear both halves of his answer, because the second half is the reason I’m writing this at all.

Peter Turchin was born in 1957 in a closed Soviet science city, the son of a dissident computer scientist. He was twenty years old and studying biology at Moscow State University when the government exiled his family from the Soviet Union for his father’s activism. He rebuilt his life in America, took a doctorate in zoology, and spent two decades doing something that had nothing to do with politics: building mathematical models of animal populations. Beetle outbreaks. Lemming crashes. The booms and busts of living systems, captured in equations that actually worked.


https://stbadhon.substack.com/p/a-scientist-fed-10000-years-of-history
80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
He Predicted America's Crisis Sixteen Years Ago, to the Year. His Database Says It Ends Three Ways. (Original Post) Dem_in_Nebr. 15 hrs ago OP
Read the whole piece, y'all. K&R ms liberty 15 hrs ago #1
You just gave me my first K&R! Dem_in_Nebr. 14 hrs ago #2
K&R again! erronis 13 hrs ago #9
Dayum! GPV 14 hrs ago #3
Damn thats a good read. N/t gay texan 14 hrs ago #4
Kick for later Unwind Your Mind 14 hrs ago #5
Highly Recommended La Coliniere 14 hrs ago #6
I KNEW My Allusions to 1789 Were More Truth Than.... ColoringFool 14 hrs ago #7
You can just use pen and paper this time BaronChocula 12 hrs ago #37
Ha! I very much dislike knitting! Clickety-click, clickety-click.......! ColoringFool 8 hrs ago #62
Random related thought BaronChocula 5 hrs ago #75
I ain't no Spring chicken! ColoringFool 1 hr ago #80
Excusez-moi moi, mais. . . Mme. Defarge 6 hrs ago #68
Turchin's article needs to be read by everyone. KS Toronado 14 hrs ago #8
Excellent analysis dlk 13 hrs ago #10
Bookmarked and Recommended CoopersDad 13 hrs ago #11
Unfortunately angrychair 13 hrs ago #12
"The greatest enemy of the United States, as far as both sides of Congress are concerned, is progressives." LymphocyteLover 13 hrs ago #16
Congress has become a path to unlimited wealth angrychair 13 hrs ago #20
Not true relogic 12 hrs ago #24
Well said! DemocracyForever 12 hrs ago #28
What? yardwork 6 hrs ago #73
The article is very interesting Klondike Kat 13 hrs ago #13
Ok then dweller 13 hrs ago #14
Ditto! Alice B. 13 hrs ago #15
Sooo...like Asimov's Psychohistory progressoid 13 hrs ago #17
are there any fictional characters more relevant to 2026 usa rampartd 12 hrs ago #32
The Mule was sterile, unfortunately our mule is/was not... Wounded Bear 12 hrs ago #39
another asimov concept is the laws of robotics rampartd 10 hrs ago #52
Yes --- Monkey D Luffy Captain of the Straw Hat Pirates in One Piece JT45242 10 hrs ago #50
i'll have to find that one. rampartd 10 hrs ago #51
Well worth everyone's time to read... Silver Gaia 13 hrs ago #18
Brilliant! GiqueCee 13 hrs ago #19
He's talking about Roosevelt's New Deal ... that's the third ending FakeNoose 13 hrs ago #21
Highly recommended democrank 13 hrs ago #22
Here's an important paragraph Bobstandard 13 hrs ago #23
But that makes 195% of societies' outcomes Farmer-Rick 6 hrs ago #69
Kick ybbor 12 hrs ago #25
I have always loved reading history. Snackshack 12 hrs ago #26
A must-read article. Talitha 12 hrs ago #27
Bush vs Gore started this nightmare DemocracyForever 12 hrs ago #29
I could not agree more. hamsterjill 9 hrs ago #54
Exactly! And then, within no time at all, came the Homeland Security Bill... BComplex 7 hrs ago #64
There's a wild card this time, and that's generative AI and the surveillance AND DISTRACTIONS it offers. highplainsdem 12 hrs ago #30
The writer and historian Morris Berman... keep_left 12 hrs ago #31
Great article jmbar2 12 hrs ago #33
Thank you. This is consistent with a book I've been meaning to read, but is still far back in my schedule... NNadir 12 hrs ago #34
Thank you for this post Dem_in_Nebr., and the link to Substack. I also subscibed. c-rational 12 hrs ago #35
Bookmarking to read later. Thank you for sharing this - looks interesting. yellow dahlia 12 hrs ago #36
The one difference is technology and the world economy Buckeyeblue 12 hrs ago #38
Yes, and the impact of AI will be devastating in an Oligarchy that doesn't care if the masses suffer. Doodley 3 hrs ago #77
Wow, read the entire link. I see the bottom line as the powerful's continued use of the "Divide And Conquer" method. Exp 11 hrs ago #40
who do you think is doing the organizing? NJCher 10 hrs ago #47
I agree with you:: Exp 10 hrs ago #48
Excellent article Wild blueberry 11 hrs ago #41
Way worth reading. Another Jackalope 11 hrs ago #42
Hhmm...wonder if the writer meant 1860, not 1870. mwmisses4289 11 hrs ago #43
As a person who did computer modelling of animals while in myPhD program 31j20b3 11 hrs ago #44
Cliodynamics has done better while I wasn't watching 4dog 7 hrs ago #65
There is no scientific database that can predict history JCMach1 11 hrs ago #45
Generations by Strauss and Howe Deminpenn 11 hrs ago #46
I've been collecting these cyclical interpreters. Have a whole file of them. NJCher 10 hrs ago #49
Agreed, this fits very closely with "The Fourth Turning" LR3 9 hrs ago #57
The Fourth Turning is actually by at least one of "Generations" authors Deminpenn 8 hrs ago #63
A great read revealing math based confirmation B.See 9 hrs ago #53
"May you live in interesting times." is all the heads up I needed. OC375 9 hrs ago #55
We Missed An Off Ramp in 2008 modrepub 9 hrs ago #56
Bookmarked for later read. GoodRaisin 9 hrs ago #58
Read, kick, Rec malaise 9 hrs ago #59
K&R. Excellent article... renordgren 8 hrs ago #60
Sheesh! FINALLY got to this. calimary 8 hrs ago #61
I did, too, 21 years ago and I posted it on DU. Kid Berwyn 7 hrs ago #66
We need the return of the FDR era Clouds Passing 7 hrs ago #67
🤔 who was the President some thought would be the next FDR ? dweller 6 hrs ago #70
Biden's policies were the closest to FDR. yardwork 6 hrs ago #74
FORMIDABLE! Mme. Defarge 6 hrs ago #71
One of the best things I've read in a long time. yardwork 6 hrs ago #72
KNR and bookmarking. niyad 3 hrs ago #76
K&R red dog 1 2 hrs ago #78
Karl Marx predicted this in 1867. BlueTsunami2018 2 hrs ago #79

La Coliniere

(2,095 posts)
6. Highly Recommended
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:01 AM
14 hrs ago

Brilliant analysis and clarion call. Please take the time to read this piece.

ColoringFool

(1,544 posts)
7. I KNEW My Allusions to 1789 Were More Truth Than....
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:19 AM
14 hrs ago

Humor!

I'll need to change my name to "Madame Defarge"! 🧶 🧣

ColoringFool

(1,544 posts)
62. Ha! I very much dislike knitting! Clickety-click, clickety-click.......!
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 05:11 PM
8 hrs ago

Digression: I am an Agatha Christie-phile. A major plot-point in my absolute favorite of her novels is also an allusion to Mme Defarge!

dlk

(13,517 posts)
10. Excellent analysis
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:33 AM
13 hrs ago

However events play out in America, the current status quo is unsustainable, and we are rapidly approaching critical mass.

We need another FDR

angrychair

(12,650 posts)
12. Unfortunately
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:39 AM
13 hrs ago
The catch, and the database is unsentimental about this, is that elites have never chosen the exit out of virtue. They chose it when organized ordinary people made reform cheaper than repression: when movements, strikes, elections, and relentless civic pressure changed the price of continuing to pump. The exit door opens from the outside.


This is the key part that is required and will be not happen.
The very people that are required to exist for this to happen are progressives, the very people that many, on both sides of Congress, are trying to destroy.

The greatest enemy of the United States, as far as both sides of Congress are concerned, is progressives.

Why is that?

LymphocyteLover

(10,494 posts)
16. "The greatest enemy of the United States, as far as both sides of Congress are concerned, is progressives."
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:47 AM
13 hrs ago

Not true. There is a only small minority of Dems in Congress who think that, but this division is pushed on purpose to divide us.

angrychair

(12,650 posts)
20. Congress has become a path to unlimited wealth
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:05 PM
13 hrs ago

It's literally the only job in America where insider trading is legal.

It's the only job in the country were you can legally take unlimited money from undisclosed sources.

It's the only job in country in which 80+ year old elected officials make decisions impacting hundreds of millions of people based almost entirely on who gives them the most money.

Progressives want to end that.

They will do anything to stop them.

relogic

(412 posts)
24. Not true
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:32 PM
12 hrs ago

Clearly, If progressives were the base and philosophy of the DNC the campaign and election landscape would reflect a resistant, oppositional force we have not seen. Where is all this overt, progressive backlash we need rather than the villainizing we see from within the party portraying progressives as too extreme, far-left and untenable?

Klondike Kat

(954 posts)
13. The article is very interesting
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:40 AM
13 hrs ago

Seems like Peter Turchin is our own Harry Seldon - at least in some respects.

dweller

(29,055 posts)
14. Ok then
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 11:41 AM
13 hrs ago

“ If you are over sixty, you were born inside the third ending. It is not a theory. It is your childhood. “





we were so spoiled

✌🏻

Wounded Bear

(64,940 posts)
39. The Mule was sterile, unfortunately our mule is/was not...
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 01:27 PM
12 hrs ago

We'll have trumps to worry about for another generation or two.

rampartd

(5,850 posts)
52. another asimov concept is the laws of robotics
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 03:27 PM
10 hrs ago

manufactufring ai without programming for 3 laws should be considered illegal.

JT45242

(4,273 posts)
50. Yes --- Monkey D Luffy Captain of the Straw Hat Pirates in One Piece
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 03:18 PM
10 hrs ago

The attack on the uber wealthy who move the world behind the scenes. The myth of the empty throne because no one king exists. Slavery theoretically outlawed but never prosecuted against the world's elite.

May the Will of D rise up and topple the Musk, Thiel, Koch, Bezos and the rest of the Epstein class and their protectors.

FakeNoose

(43,338 posts)
21. He's talking about Roosevelt's New Deal ... that's the third ending
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:09 PM
13 hrs ago

No one-per-center (besides FDR) ever chose that ending, it was forced on them by Americans who spent their lives being exploited and used by the ultra-wealthy. If Europe had had a New Deal leader like FDR there probably never would have been a Hitler or World War II. But that's beside the point.

I've read a couple of Peter Turchin's books and they are quite inspiring. There's more to this than computer modelling, it's a synthesis of history, economics and cultural influences. It's worth the time to track down Turchin's books.

Bobstandard

(2,460 posts)
23. Here's an important paragraph
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:17 PM
13 hrs ago
Among the societies in Turchin’s crisis database, the ones that reached the condition America is in now, the outcomes read like a coroner’s ledger. Forty percent saw their rulers assassinated. Twenty percent endured civil wars that lasted a century. Three quarters ended in revolution or civil war or both. And sixty percent of them ceased to exist entirely, dissolved from within or conquered from without. Turchin’s current description of the United States, in his clinical vocabulary, is a society in a “revolutionary situation.”


The article emphasizes that there are alternative endings. Read the whole thing.

Farmer-Rick

(12,889 posts)
69. But that makes 195% of societies' outcomes
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 06:35 PM
6 hrs ago

Ahhh, usually you can only get 100%.....

So not sure what those percentages really mean.

Snackshack

(2,612 posts)
26. I have always loved reading history.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:37 PM
12 hrs ago

If one does read the history of our species a pattern quickly emerges.

Catastrophic event happens, the ppl alive that experienced the catastrophic event swear 'never again!'... and then 3-4 generations later it happens all over again.

IMO- Ppl seem to think that the advancement of our civilization through technology & standard of living also included an upgrade in human behavior... it did not.

We still suffer from the same set of emotions as Romans, Greeks and Sumerians suffered from.

DemocracyForever

(425 posts)
29. Bush vs Gore started this nightmare
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:42 PM
12 hrs ago

I knew the night of December 12, 2000 when the GOP controlled SCOTUS stopped the legal Florida vote count and installed W against the will of the people that our country had been put on the path to dictatorship. Here we now are.

BComplex

(10,085 posts)
64. Exactly! And then, within no time at all, came the Homeland Security Bill...
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 05:35 PM
7 hrs ago

pushed through by almost the entire legislative branch, due to 9/11 fears....which actually ushered in a path to authoritarian rule, as evidenced by the entire ICE mess we have today.

highplainsdem

(63,952 posts)
30. There's a wild card this time, and that's generative AI and the surveillance AND DISTRACTIONS it offers.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:44 PM
12 hrs ago

The AI bros who are busy gathering every bit of data they can find about you, with plans to use it to manipulate you and/or sell or give to others who want to manipulate you, want you both distracted by and dependent on generative AI tools. That's the baited trap.

Steer clear of generative AI as much as possible. Even if you think it's just a tool you're using, it's dumbing you down, making you dependent, and influencing you much more than you realize. There have already been plenty of studies to confirm that.

keep_left

(3,252 posts)
31. The writer and historian Morris Berman...
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:45 PM
12 hrs ago

…has been mentioned around these parts on several occasions; his book The Twilight of American Culture (2000) foresaw much of the decline that has become obvious in the last few years. Twilight is one of the works in Berman’s “America trilogy”, which I would recommend to all DUers interested in how we got here.

jmbar2

(8,302 posts)
33. Great article
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:47 PM
12 hrs ago
Three gauges, all climbing into the red.

1. Popular immiseration- wage growth stagnation since the '70s
2. Wealth pump
3. Elite overproduction - "society produces far more ambitious, credentialed people than it has powerful positions to give them".

History’s revolutions, his data shows, are not led by the hungry. They are led by frustrated would-be elites who harness the anger of the hungry. The men in masks on July 4th were not peasants. Neither were the leaders of any uprising in his database.


Among the societies in Turchin’s crisis database, the ones that reached the condition America is in now, the outcomes read like a coroner’s ledger. Forty percent saw their rulers assassinated. Twenty percent endured civil wars that lasted a century. Three quarters ended in revolution or civil war or both. And sixty percent of them ceased to exist entirely, dissolved from within or conquered from without. Turchin’s current description of the United States, in his clinical vocabulary, is a society in a “revolutionary situation.”


And here is the finding I need you to hold onto: the clearest case of the peaceful exit in Turchin’s entire dataset is the United States of America. The Gilded Age ran the wealth pump exactly as it runs today, complete with private armies, street bombings, and contempt between the classes. And then, across the Progressive Era and the New Deal, the pump was deliberately throttled: taxation of great fortunes, the breakup of monopolies, the legalization of unions, the great expansion of education that gave surplus elites somewhere to go. What followed was the only period in the database where inequality reversed peacefully: the postwar decades of shared prosperity. If you are over sixty, you were born inside the third ending. It is not a theory. It is your childhood.


This analysis is exactly the same as my favorite economist, Gary Stevenson. His analysis covers both the US and Britain.

NNadir

(38,960 posts)
34. Thank you. This is consistent with a book I've been meaning to read, but is still far back in my schedule...
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 12:52 PM
12 hrs ago

...The Great Leveler.

Subtitle:

Violence and the History of Inequality from the Stone Age to the Twenty-First Century


What I think may be different than past examples of societal collapse - which is clearly underway and is responsible for the placement of the corrupt orange pedophile in the White House, a symptom, not a cause - is the decline in resources, one of which is the very air we breathe.

Thanks again. A wonderful read.

Buckeyeblue

(6,515 posts)
38. The one difference is technology and the world economy
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 01:27 PM
12 hrs ago

Technology has made the world smaller and faster...and created more dependencies. It would be interesting to know how the model compensates for that. I would also say nuclear proliferation also has to be factored in.

Doodley

(12,178 posts)
77. Yes, and the impact of AI will be devastating in an Oligarchy that doesn't care if the masses suffer.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 10:01 PM
3 hrs ago

Exp

(1,092 posts)
40. Wow, read the entire link. I see the bottom line as the powerful's continued use of the "Divide And Conquer" method.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 01:31 PM
11 hrs ago

Those in power blaming the less fortunates' struggles on another group of less fortunates.

When Turchin writes of too many educated elites not getting their fare share I think of the reason why the GOP doesn't want an expanded educated class who can think, be smart and practise critical thinking.

NJCher

(43,903 posts)
47. who do you think is doing the organizing?
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 02:34 PM
10 hrs ago
why the GOP doesn't want an expanded educated class who can think, be smart and practise critical thinking.

Most of the time, it's the overproduced elites. They apply their thinking ability, smarts, and critical thinking skills to organizing the revolution.

Exp

(1,092 posts)
48. I agree with you::
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 02:44 PM
10 hrs ago

Divide and conquer has not caused any revolution due to misplaced blame, but this:

"Most of the time, it's the overproduced elites. They apply their thinking ability, smarts, and critical thinking skills to organizing the revolution. "

could.

Another Jackalope

(234 posts)
42. Way worth reading.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 01:42 PM
11 hrs ago

It's just too bad he didn't factor in the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Maximum Power Principle that act together to shape the structure and behaviour of large groups of organisms over hundreds of millions of years. Think of that as the final Hope Extinguisher for growth-driven societies.

Physics wins all arguments.
Estamos tan jodidos!

31j20b3

(243 posts)
44. As a person who did computer modelling of animals while in myPhD program
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 01:46 PM
11 hrs ago

I am pretty sure that any model considering this would be awash in unconfirmed and probably anthropologically biased guesses

When building a model about how Moose move about their home range we made many wags, which for the uniformed means wild ass guesses

I am pretty sure that mathematical skill wouldn't and couldn't correct for any BAD assumption that went into the building of the computer code.

I suspect, but never looked at the model, that what it most likely does is produce projections built around common sensical guesses.

Analytical models have few variable, lack reality, but can be solved by applying calculus. I can't imagine this problem with a handful of variables which whould make the calculus tractable.

Numerical models are often plush in variables, for which there is little data to characterize mathematical relationships with other variables. I can imagine a group of modellers thinking they were including all the variables THEY felt were important.

4dog

(540 posts)
65. Cliodynamics has done better while I wasn't watching
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 05:59 PM
7 hrs ago

Check out Turchin on Substack or Cliodynamica. I just read a long discussion of how you try to assess cause and effect from historical data using effective and noneffective models.

JCMach1

(29,288 posts)
45. There is no scientific database that can predict history
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 01:49 PM
11 hrs ago

Caveat emptor on this pseudoscience nonsense.

Sorry, but Hari Seldon is still very much a fiction.

NJCher

(43,903 posts)
49. I've been collecting these cyclical interpreters. Have a whole file of them.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 02:55 PM
10 hrs ago
The Fourth Turning: What the Cycles of History Tell Us About America's Next Rendezvous with Destiny Strauss, Howe.

This one was published way back in 2011: Jeremy Rifkin, discussing how technological evolution has a repeating impact on society: The Third Industrial Revolution

I have a few more if anyone is interested.

I learned the value of it when I worked in marketing.


LR3

(227 posts)
57. Agreed, this fits very closely with "The Fourth Turning"
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 04:16 PM
9 hrs ago

To be clear, these models do not "predict history" as some are trying to say above to refute them, they are taking reams of historical data and plotting out the cycles that appear with rather astonishing regularity.

Deminpenn

(17,663 posts)
63. The Fourth Turning is actually by at least one of "Generations" authors
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 05:25 PM
8 hrs ago

IIRC from "Generations" we are at the fourth turning, that is when we baby boomers were born, we were the newest and youngest generation. Now, with the silent and greatest generations rapidly dying out, baby boomers are the oldest generation. What has stuck with me over the years is that this configuration of cohorts where an "idealist" generation like us baby boomers is the oldest generation, is the best configuration for progressive accomplishments.

If you read the histories of the 1920s and 30s, you can see the similarities and parallels to the present.

B.See

(9,098 posts)
53. A great read revealing math based confirmation
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 03:35 PM
9 hrs ago

of what I (and no doubt, many others) have long felt was coming... one way or the other.

modrepub

(4,277 posts)
56. We Missed An Off Ramp in 2008
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 04:01 PM
9 hrs ago

Instead of breaking up monopolies in the banking and investment system we bailed them out.

If there are no consequences for bad decisions and you don’t remove the people who did them then they’re just going to hang around and do it again.

Contrast what was done after the 2008 facial crisis (systemic bail outs) vs what was done after the S&L crash in the early 1980s (prosecution with jail time along with liquidation of bad financial institutions and loans).

IMHO another financial problem is brewing with AI. The $1M question is do we bail out the tech bros and folks who sold us this crappy bill of goods or do we send them to gulag where the belong?

calimary

(91,695 posts)
61. Sheesh! FINALLY got to this.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 04:40 PM
8 hrs ago

I GREATLY appreciate insight like this, and insights spelled out like this! Most informative and clarifying.

Read the whole thing, nodding throughout. (NODDING. NOT nodding OFF.).

Kid Berwyn

(25,684 posts)
66. I did, too, 21 years ago and I posted it on DU.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 06:11 PM
7 hrs ago
The elite created a planet full of Hitlers

And while many in the 1-percent and even a few of the 0.01-percent certainly try to make life better for others, they seem to think they’ll survive the fascism and associated societal collapse.



A Planet Full of Hitlers

The world's billionaires, led by the Bush "madministration," are acting like a planet of full of Hitlers. They are willing to invade whatever region in the world has what the world needs most -- oil.

Black gold. Texas tea. Petrodollars.

They figure they have all the money. And basically, apart from a Soros here and a Gates there, they do.

And thus, the world’s billionaires and their hounds of the BFEE want to spend it all before they die. And they have the plan and cash on hand to do so.

Consider the Bush agenda: All War. All the Time. Government spending for the MI-Complex, transferring trillions to the wealthy corporate owners, war and all.

These are the likes of the “industrialists” Mussolini, Franco and Hitler so loved.

And like the fascist trifecta, the American fascists of the BFEE have bought all the political power. Don't just think Tom Roach Motel DeLay and Mr. Friskie Frist. Remember Prescott Bush and Averell Harriman and Allen Dulles and Rheinhard Gehlen and Igor Orlov.

What can we do about it? They’ve bought all the legal power, built law schools for Federalist Society AND Opus Dei judges. Think Bill Eagle Eye Rehnquist and Antonin Fat Tony Scalia.

These turds of the BFEE have worked all the tax breaks and bankrupty laws for the rich. Uncle Sam reverse-Robin Hoods wealth to the top 1-percent of country.

And what do these rich turds who prop up Bush use their tax savings on? They certainly haven't invested it in making America a better place to work or live; they've invested in "off-shoring."

Lots of the tax money goes to buy more vacation homes, yachts and jet planes. Most goes offshore to the Caymans and Switzerland.

And of course they want more without having to pay for the damage to the environment. Farmland depletion in the USA. Rain forest depletion around the globe. Oceans getting acidic. Fish stock depletion. Global air pollution and water shortages.

Well. OK. Maybe a case can be made it’s the rich folk’s money. They can do what they want. But they should pay their fair share of taxes! After all, the rest of society helps keep them in their position. And its our brothers and sisters in the armed forces who are giving their lives to keep their oil and power and privilege.

Budget red ink means no money for middle class. No money for schools. No money for cities and suburbs and farms. No money for roads. No money for science and R and D. No money for the future.

And the media? What media? What Fairness Doctrine?

They cover up their materialism and venality with all the talk about Faith-based this and Conservative-values that. But the reality is these are sinister wolves and satanic bed-wetting bastards in sheep's clothing we are dealing with.

Wasn’t that what Bush really meant when he told Bob Woodward “History? Who cares about history? In a hundred years we’ll all be dead.”

Just like Hitler. And just like Hitler, Bush (today Trump, Musk and those with escape collapse redoubts) wants to take us all with him.

-- Octafish

2005 DU OP: https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3648867



Like the OP suggests: And still we try.

BlueTsunami2018

(5,164 posts)
79. Karl Marx predicted this in 1867.
Fri Jul 10, 2026, 10:46 PM
2 hrs ago

He was right then, he’s still right today.

This was all very obvious.

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