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Scrivener7

(60,342 posts)
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 10:09 AM 7 hrs ago

I cannot get this NYT article out of my mind. It's everything that's wrong with the media today.

It was posted by DUer hookaleft here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=21325477
and hookaleft linked the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/23/us/trump-reflecting-pool-green-peeling.html

Here is the "Emperor's New Clothes" headline: Trump Blames Vandals for Reflecting Pool Problems. Internal Records Tell Another Story.

Does the New York Times REALLY need "internal documents" to prove there are no marauding Antifa pool slasher gangs roaming the Capitol? Are they REALLY that stupid?

They know what the lede is. The lede is that a demented madman has created YET ANOTHER stupendous fuck-up which has cost us millions which went into his cronies' pockets, yet again, and for which he is refusing to take responsibility. THEY KNOW THIS.

But they insist on this kabuki dance of "We are looking at both sides, but the internal documents really do seem to suggest, maybe, possibly, that there are no marauding Antifa pool slasher gangs and the pool was just done wrong. But arrests have been made!1!!"

Everything the legacy media does takes this form. Take the lie, normalize it, both-sides it, thus creating a completely INSANE conversation. "Trump Says Iran War is Over." That headline ran 33 times! THIRTY THREE! And instead of making the thirty two previous lies the point of the article, they gave his mouth dribbles their customary wide-eyed acceptance. Thirty three times.

What is the point of this? And what are they afraid of?

Why are they so eager to make themselves useless?

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I cannot get this NYT article out of my mind. It's everything that's wrong with the media today. (Original Post) Scrivener7 7 hrs ago OP
I had the same reaction, Scrivener choie 7 hrs ago #1
Excellently phrased!!! n/t returnee 6 hrs ago #2
Thank you! Scrivener7 6 hrs ago #4
They aren't stupid. Wednesdays 6 hrs ago #3
I agree. But I'm beginning to think it is going to backfire on them. They're doing it to Scrivener7 6 hrs ago #5
Media are owned by oligarchs. usonian 6 hrs ago #6
Yes, but to what end? What is the advantage to them of making the media too stupid to pay any attention to? Scrivener7 3 hrs ago #27
I watch ABC Nightly News ( which has lately become the ABC Nightly Weather Channel for some reason) Ray Bruns 6 hrs ago #7
There is a flip side here. Trump is an attention hog. By not talking about him you undermine his relevancy. flashman13 5 hrs ago #10
There's a paradox relogic 5 hrs ago #13
I agree that there is a paradox here, but I think there is a work around. What needs to happen is to focus flashman13 4 hrs ago #23
The solution is to give him the coverage he's earned BaronChocula 4 hrs ago #25
Yes. Why any outlet pays a White House correspondent under this regime is beyond me. Scrivener7 3 hrs ago #28
My husband and I predict the lead story: Tornadoes/weather, airplanes falling out of sky/colliding, shootings, Trump. betsuni 5 hrs ago #11
This is a great headline. I approve of their approach. reACTIONary 6 hrs ago #8
Seriously, I'm asking. Tell me why. Because I just don't understand. Scrivener7 3 hrs ago #29
For several reasons, and with one exception.... reACTIONary 1 hr ago #30
I hear you. And thank you for taking the time. But I'm still going to disagree. Scrivener7 57 min ago #32
Personally, I think investigating the claim is better... reACTIONary 4 min ago #33
Well yes, they DO know, but they keep dancing around it FakeNoose 5 hrs ago #9
The media dance the bumbling two-step as well as trump. erronis 5 hrs ago #12
One could argue that the NYT is already useless and basically preaching to the choir. maxsolomon 5 hrs ago #14
Seriously.......... popsdenver 5 hrs ago #15
You.. homegirl 4 hrs ago #17
(NOT!)newsmax is even more propaganda driven than fuxnews. yellow dahlia 4 hrs ago #18
Sorry, but people vastly overestimate the number of people who watch Fox News Wiz Imp 4 hrs ago #22
Thanks! Those are interesting numbers! reACTIONary 1 min ago #34
"which went into his cronies' pockets,"...And most probably into his, or his family's pockets. Escurumbele 4 hrs ago #16
The tragedy that people need to understand is the fact that to cover his grift and stupity, Escurumbele 4 hrs ago #19
Right! Raise doubts? yellow dahlia 4 hrs ago #20
Every night from 1979 to 1981 BidenRocks 4 hrs ago #21
They're smart people. They know what they're doing. Politicub 4 hrs ago #24
;-{) THIS Goonch 3 hrs ago #26
Now they cater to the few Magats reading their crap mdbl 1 hr ago #31

Scrivener7

(60,342 posts)
5. I agree. But I'm beginning to think it is going to backfire on them. They're doing it to
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 10:58 AM
6 hrs ago

prop him up and strengthen support for his agenda. But his behavior and his agenda have gotten to the point where they are so ridiculous, this tactic just makes them look as demented as he is.

I can only hope many more are seeing this than did when he was elected. And re-elected.

Scrivener7

(60,342 posts)
27. Yes, but to what end? What is the advantage to them of making the media too stupid to pay any attention to?
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 01:46 PM
3 hrs ago

Ray Bruns

(6,952 posts)
7. I watch ABC Nightly News ( which has lately become the ABC Nightly Weather Channel for some reason)
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 11:17 AM
6 hrs ago

And the Trump stories have relegated to the third or fourth story of the night. It’s never the lead. Infuriating.

flashman13

(2,631 posts)
10. There is a flip side here. Trump is an attention hog. By not talking about him you undermine his relevancy.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 11:33 AM
5 hrs ago

If the media moves his drivel to page 13, it takes the spotlight off of him and makes room for stories that focus on what a total disaster his administration really is.

relogic

(372 posts)
13. There's a paradox
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 11:45 AM
5 hrs ago

in that his consuming power and influence is affecting so many things in our lives. How do you inform people of these drastic consequences without crediting them to the ubiquitous toddler in chief?.

flashman13

(2,631 posts)
23. I agree that there is a paradox here, but I think there is a work around. What needs to happen is to focus
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:58 PM
4 hrs ago

on the consequences of Trump's actions without putting the spotlight directly on him. We don't need to hear his nonstop nonsense. We just have to see the disaster for what it is and work toward mitigating the damage now, while espousing plans to check his insanity after the mid terms.

I for one am sick of seeing his ugly orange face.

BaronChocula

(4,959 posts)
25. The solution is to give him the coverage he's earned
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 01:08 PM
4 hrs ago

I think the objection in the OP is that he is, objectively speaking, a compulsive liar that is given every benefit of the doubt that he does not deserve. Too often he's treated in press/media as if journalistic objectivism means complete ignorance, which it doesn't. In knowing that he's a liar, any coverage of his comments should begin by stating that fact somewhere. Instead his false statements are treated with kid gloves.

It's a habit as old as America for institutions to give all the passes to white men motivated by the preservation of white male supremacy. They are supremely vindictive. But when institutions bend to appease them they aren't being independent and they aren't serving people well.

Just my fifteen cents (inflation )

Scrivener7

(60,342 posts)
28. Yes. Why any outlet pays a White House correspondent under this regime is beyond me.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 01:47 PM
3 hrs ago

What news has EVER come out of that farce?

betsuni

(29,426 posts)
11. My husband and I predict the lead story: Tornadoes/weather, airplanes falling out of sky/colliding, shootings, Trump.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 11:43 AM
5 hrs ago

Tonight we correctly guessed tornadoes. Like how the answer on multiple answer tests is usually C, the top story on ABC is usually tornadoes.

reACTIONary

(7,417 posts)
30. For several reasons, and with one exception....
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 03:32 PM
1 hr ago

First, the reasons. This is "investigative" or "enterprise" journalism. Mind you, this is not Watergate level investigative journalism, and it ain't going to win any Pulitzer prizes, but that is what it is. The administration makes a claim, the administration provides no evidence, they investigate and find that, actually, there is no real evidence, even though there is a minor revelation that was used as a pretext for an exaggerated bullshit claim.

Now why would they go through all this trouble to investigate a bullshit claim that would seem to be almost self evident? That nobody would believe in the first place? Not true. There are plenty of people who will and do believe the bullshit. That is a fact that we are going to have to live with, and are going to have to work against. An article like this erodes and counter-acts this blind faith. Now, does it suddenly cause a revelation on the part of the true believers? Do they slap their forehead and say "My God, I have been deceived?" Do they even read the NYT? No, but informational osmosis propagates it and it erodes blind faith, especially around the edges - those who are skeptical but not yet never Trumpers. And its neutral point of view helps to undermine the allegation that anti-Trumpers are victims of TDS.

So what about the headline itself? It does not scream "Trump Is Bullshitting You... Again." It is more neutral and "non partisan." Hey, the prez says this, and, sure, it is unlikely, but... let's take a look." This is the right approach. It telegraphs the exact opposite of partisanship rancher and any sort of "derangement syndrome." What it telegraphs is "epistemic virtue" - the ethical value of pursuing and adhering to the facts, the evidence, and the truth, wherever it might lead. This is obviously a stance that is at odds with and against the "Trumpian anti-ethos" of grandiose, self serving bullshit. It leads by example. And it will overcome.

If you are familiar with the skeptical community - those who are skeptical of and investigate "anomalous phenomenon," like claims of the supernatural, UFO, psychic abilities, etc. - you may be familiar with this stance. To many skeptics such claims are patently ridiculous, and laughable. However, the stance that is taken is that of epistemic virtue: Let's take a look and see. Let's investigate and find out. This stance conveys a certain amount of respect for the "claimant" and for the truth.

The proper stance in a journalistic enterprise is a certain amount of respect for the "claimant" - in this case, for those that might be inclined to believe based on blind faith - and a great deal of respect for the truth. The headline and the article display both.

NOW for the exception: As HL Mencken has said:

"One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent".


This is true! And it doesn't exactly comport with the skeptical stance of respect for those who are believers. This is the Andy Borowitz approach, and I approve of it heartily - because I am heartily laughing along with him! The Onion? I love it! Jonathan Swift? You bet!

The difference here is the field of discourse... Satire is a rhetorical device used in the advocacy of a truth, in an amusing and entertaining way, but not for the discovery of the facts that substantiate the truth. It has its value as a weapon, especially for those who are already outside of, or are becoming skeptical of, the blind faith community. But satire is simply not journalism. Journalism requires a different approach. Both have value, but they must both be used appropriately under the circumstances.

Scrivener7

(60,342 posts)
32. I hear you. And thank you for taking the time. But I'm still going to disagree.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 04:34 PM
57 min ago

This is what Trump depends on. This is how he controls all the news all the time.

The biggest problem is the absolute ridiculousness of the things about which they are saying, "Let's investigate that." If he said, "I have nine noses," should their knee jerk reaction be, "Let's investigate that"?

The world actually IS round. Gravity actually DOES make things fall to the ground. Pool vandalizing leftist gangs DO NOT exist and Trump DID fuck up. It wastes everyone's time and adds credibility to the asinine to say, "Let's investigate that!"

As you say, this is probably aimed at the maga who will believe him no matter what, even when he does say, "Look at my face, I have nine noses." But should the New York Times, the paper of record, be saying, "Hmmm. Let's look at his face and count, because I think there's only one!" Doesn't that make them completely useless about news that does matter?

reACTIONary

(7,417 posts)
33. Personally, I think investigating the claim is better...
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 05:26 PM
4 min ago

... than ignoring it entirely. And a newspaper is not (in the news section) going to go on about how inane he is without some sort of investigation. In fact, they are not going to be very overtly judgmental even with an investigation, as this article exemplifies.

As long as we are talking about journalistic standards for news reporting, I think that will just be the case. In the opinion section there is much more latitude for being judgmental and for making assumptions about the actual facts and motives. Maybe you would be more satisfied with the opinion section, or opinion oriented outlets.

FakeNoose

(42,985 posts)
9. Well yes, they DO know, but they keep dancing around it
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 11:32 AM
5 hrs ago

Also MS-Now did the same thing. Nobody will stick their necks out and say that "HE DID IT." It's his fault, clearly and obviously. They don't want to deal with his wrath, his mean-tweets, his stupid nuisance lawsuits, etc.

So they dance around the truth....

(sigh) This is the country we're living in now, if we can call this "living."

maxsolomon

(39,410 posts)
14. One could argue that the NYT is already useless and basically preaching to the choir.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 11:49 AM
5 hrs ago

They cannot move the needle no matter how editorial their headlines get. Newspapers don't have that power. Americans listen to Fox and Hate Radio.

MFer will still threaten to sue them over their downplaying headlines.

popsdenver

(2,785 posts)
15. Seriously..........
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:28 PM
5 hrs ago

Does anyone on DU actually think for a New York second, that ANY MAGAot Trumphumper watches anything on ABC, NBC, CBS, etc.
They all have nothing on their TV's except FOX NEWS, 24/7/365 for over 20? years now........Oh, and of course RW Radio saturating the air waves across the entire, vastness of Rural America...........

And all these MAGAot voters either can't read at all, or won't read anything in print........

Rush Limbaugh is smiling and laughing hysterically from his grave.......

yellow dahlia

(6,871 posts)
18. (NOT!)newsmax is even more propaganda driven than fuxnews.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:49 PM
4 hrs ago

They are true state tv. It is mind control - very scary.

Wiz Imp

(10,792 posts)
22. Sorry, but people vastly overestimate the number of people who watch Fox News
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:53 PM
4 hrs ago

Fox News averages about 1.7 million viewers during the day. Primetime gets maybe 2.6 million viewers. For comparison, ABC News averages 7.8 to 8.6 million viewers. NBC averages between 5.5 & 7.8 million viewers. CBS News averages about 3.8 million viewers (down significantly from before Bari Weiss took over). There is almost nobody tuned into FoxNews 24 hours day. And a vast majority of Trump voters do not watch Fox News on any kind of consistent basis.

Talk radio is far more insidious and has significantly more regular listeners than the small numbers of people watching Fox News.

Escurumbele

(4,121 posts)
16. "which went into his cronies' pockets,"...And most probably into his, or his family's pockets.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:47 PM
4 hrs ago

Escurumbele

(4,121 posts)
19. The tragedy that people need to understand is the fact that to cover his grift and stupity,
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:51 PM
4 hrs ago

he is now blaming other people, innocent bystanders, trying to ruin their lives and he doesn't care whose lives he ruins, we all know that, but for the GOP to condone it makes the tragedy even bigger.

If I am not mistaken, these people are now forced to go to court for something they didn't do.

BidenRocks

(3,638 posts)
21. Every night from 1979 to 1981
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:52 PM
4 hrs ago

The Iranian Hostage Crises Day XX
Every single day. (That led to Koppel and Nightline)

2026: The Chump - Epstein file cover up, day 2,321.
The only for sure mention of this is on Jimmy Kimmel!

Politicub

(12,344 posts)
24. They're smart people. They know what they're doing.
Wed Jun 24, 2026, 12:59 PM
4 hrs ago

The question is, why do they make editorial decisions that favor Trump?

I don’t get it. I don’t know what’s in it for them. But what I do know is that these aren’t errors of judgement. They’re intentional decisions and they provide an unending supply of fig leaves to this administration.

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