General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf you gave the bottom 300 million people in this country $3,000 each...?
You still would not have a trillion.
You would have $900 billion dollars.
I say that we give those 300 million Americans a check for 3,000 each and just tax one man.
Elon Musk would still have a $100 billion dollars left to play with, and would still be one of the richest men in the world.
It is so obscene.
applegrove
(133,492 posts)cost the average American over $3000.
Blue Full Moon
(3,742 posts)bucolic_frolic
(56,179 posts)Some historians say the Crusades and the Knights Templar were organized like banks or corporations. Knights helped move goods and could obtain credits or make deposits on their routes.
The LLCs began the Age of Exploration. Dutch East India Company and similar. Invest in company assets, insulate yourself from liability, hire thugs to conquer the world by whatever means necessary. Early venture capital.
Then came insurance. Lloyd's of London. And the great banking houses from European capitals. Stock exchanges. Everyone wanted to make money, rarely a thought to economic inequality.
haele
(15,675 posts)That is what he'd need available just to do that "good deed" and still maintain the few actual bills he pays on current lifestyle for the rest of the year.
Most of that trillion dollars he claims for himself is leveraged in the debt and differments he took on to become a multi-billionaire.
ProfessorGAC
(77,514 posts)It's not just leverage.
His holdings and cult of "potential" that supports the gross overvaluation of his holdings create a situation where he can't liquidate.
For instance, he owns 20% of TSLA. Their valuation is a bit under $1.3 trillion. (Ignore, for now, that lack of justification for the market value.)
He can't sell any appreciable amount of it, because the markets would panic over him selling his own company's stock, and the price would plummet.
Same with SpaceX & his crypto holdings.
This negatively affects any liquidity because if one can't sell holdings for cash, it is, by definition, not liquid.
harumph
(3,478 posts)We are prisoners of their whims.
paleotn
(22,965 posts)The market is irrational short term. Longer term, not so much. I wonder what SpaceX's first "earnings" call will be like?
Aviation Pro
(15,858 posts)Against his paper assets and they are protected against taxation.
OC375
(1,164 posts)Obviously its time for a reset on wealth. It isnt working.
slightlv
(8,123 posts)Saw the future at that point, and it's one I didn't want to be part of. Tried talking to my coworker (a "libertarian" repub), and he couldn't at all understand what I was trying to say. I shake my head, cause they're no smarter now than they were then... maybe even dumber!
Frasier Balzov
(5,151 posts)A bunch of the employees are millionaires now.
in2herbs
(4,640 posts)Frasier Balzov
(5,151 posts)Managed liquidity so the sell side of the market doesn't drive the price down.
I imagine many employees will be hanging onto their shares indefinitely.
Those long-term holdings will be marginable, so they can be collateral for borrowings which can support an upgrade to lifestyles with very favorable tax treatment.
dutch777
(5,114 posts)PatSeg
(53,847 posts)For Elon, he wouldn't know how to survive on such a piddling sum. He'd have to start pinching pennies and cutting back on the extras.
Grim Chieftain
(2,230 posts)is the epitome of evil. When my husband and I still bought lottery tickets, we would talk about causes and charities we would donate money to, not what extravagances we could spend it on, but how we could help others. As I've said many times here, with Democrats, it's about we, with Republicans, it's about me.
slightlv
(8,123 posts)and actually made good money... high five figures. Stashed away most of it for when the next string of rainy days hit, but I also used some of it to buy tickets to plays, etc... even ones that I didn't want to particularly see. Why? Because for the first time in my life, I could buy tickets for me, my Mom, and my Sister to go and share the experience together. That meant more to me than seeing the show... even CATS... ever could. The fact that I could make *their* lives a little happier. And then, contract was changed to GS and at one of the lowest levels, and hubby lost his contract. That "string of rainy days" hasn't let up yet... (sigh). But man, it was sure fun while it lasted!
Aussie105
(8,282 posts)I always have my doubts.
Too many variables, and cashing in the money is problematic.
Who would buy Tesla for instance, at the current valuation? Nobody!
The current AU $600 in my wallet though, that is real money.
The good thing though, is that when Trump or Musk shuffle off the planet, there will be a fire sale and the real value of their hoardings will quickly become apparent.
KS Toronado
(24,037 posts)should be used headed into the midterms. Or at least every D running for office needs to talk about
how income inequality is working against them.
Bev54
(13,550 posts)It is unbelievable people are willing to trust him. Their entire investment is reliant on AI that most, including those who are in the AI business, think is overblown.
ms liberty
(11,439 posts)The economy did well during the pandemic bc we paid people.
Coventina
(30,019 posts)MerryBlooms
(12,504 posts)Who got everything cut this year, because trump ss cola.
My 82 sis who makes too much, to qualify for medicaid for me to get paid, but not much.over. she still has co pay, type 2, sundowners, so, our schedule is messed up. lol
These jerks in charge, who admitted, they don't care? Come spend 1 24hrs in my shoes! The meds shots, suppository, cats, cleaning, yard, head to other client so I can still pay off credit card to move here to take care of my sister.
These millionaires, billionaires, now trillion, have never had to stay up and wipe someone's privates, insert suppository... read Every label on every can or bag she takes off the shelf, and explain why she can't have it, and the ride home. Then the next 2 days
Ugh, these ruch files can kiss my lily white hard working bruised arms, legs, spkut nails, fingers, And especially my Bunions!
MerryBlooms
(12,504 posts)Looking for better days
Have my sister cool with 100's coming
That's really what I cared about
Thanks for letting me vent
Sorry
paleotn
(22,965 posts)QueerDuck
(2,044 posts)But the numbers and maths... staggering.
OGBuzz
(803 posts)Only 23 countries on earth have a higher GDP than Musk's personal fortune.
paleotn
(22,965 posts)OGBuzz
(803 posts)volumes traded at SpaceX.
paleotn
(22,965 posts)You're conflating apples with oranges. That's regular activity. Any significant moves by Elmo would be on top of that and would be noticed very, very quickly.
OGBuzz
(803 posts)paleotn
(22,965 posts)It's paper. Not money in his pocket. And if he tried to liquefy even a tiny portion, the market would take that as an "oh, shit!" and the stock would plummet. Thing is, not much in this frankenstein company actually makes much money other than maybe Starlink. The rest is hype. Pure, unadulterated bullshit. At least Tesla made cars people bought.
This company makes nothing but stupid claims. And after disappointing earnings cycle after disappointing earnings cycle, the stock will get savaged. May happen sooner than we think. AI data centers in orbit? That's so patently stupid and unworkable it boggles the mind almost as much as the idea of people living for any significant amount of time on Mars. It ain't happening, folks.
LogDog75
(1,424 posts)Instead, the money should be used to change the way our nations economic system runs to reduce the pay equity between the rich, the middle class, and the poor.
First of all, we need to change the tax codes to prevent the wealthy from being able to influence the government on the taxes they pay. They should have no more tax breaks than the average citizen has like individual/married, deduction, SALT deductions, child credit deduction, etc...
Second, we need to increase the taxes on those making over $500,000 raising it in graduated rates where the more you earn the more you pay in taxes. IMO, the highest tax rate should be 75% for federal taxes.
Third, CEOs are limited to 15 times the average pay of their employees. Any amount the CEO and top corporate managers make above the 15 times limit will be taxed at a higher rate.
Fourth, pass a law that saws corporations are not people but are an artificial entity and therefor do not have the same or more rights than a human being. Corporations have limited free speech rights but no rights to influence the federal, state, or local governments on the enactment of laws or taxes.
Undoubtedly, there are more things but the idea is by reforming how our economy and tax polices function from favoring the wealth to the average citizen will benefit everyone at every level. The monies collected from taxing the wealthy and corporations can be used to reinforce the social safety net that has been shredded since the Reagan administration.
Seinan Sensei
(1,695 posts)Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope!
And do-away-with Citizens United.
Yesterday, if possible.
JBTaurus83
(1,770 posts)During Covid. Every business just knew Americans had some extra cash sitting around and raised their prices. Im definitely fine with placing a very large tax on that douche bag though.
Emile
(43,889 posts)WarGamer
(18,918 posts)One... $3000 wouldn't change a thing for 98% of the public... they'd buy a big screen tv a weekend in Vegas or clothing.
SOME would pay bills or tuition... very few.
And the old "Elon can give away XXX"
Elon Musk doesn't have 100B in the bank.
He probably doesn't have ONE billion in the bank.
Musk is probably the least liquid of the top billionaires... no yachts, no mega mansions and no Bugatti.
So when you say... "Musk can give away $XXX you're saying sell stock and if the amount of stock sold is large enough the stock price dips which affects the retirement accounts for regular folks... Even the CLPRS retirement fund invests in Musk led businesses...
Literally, CLPRS... the California State Retirement fund holds 5,000,000 shares of TSLA.
So who gets hurt?
Initech
(109,493 posts)He wants it all. And he's destroying more governments to get it. The man is a fucking monster who deserves nothing but prison time.