General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsOh My! The Pentagon Threatened Pope Leo XIV's Ambassador With the Avignon Papacy
https://www.thelettersfromleo.com/p/the-pentagon-threatened-pope-leo[UPDATE at 4:33 PM EDT: Letters from Leo can now independently confirm The Free Press report that the meeting took place — and that some Vatican officials were so alarmed by the Pentagon’s tactics that they shelved plans for Pope Leo XIV to visit the United States later this year.
Other officials in the Vatican saw the Pentagon’s reference to an Avignon papacy as a threat to use military force against the Holy See.]
In January, behind closed doors at the Pentagon, Under Secretary of War for Policy Elbridge Colby summoned Cardinal Christophe Pierre — Pope Leo XIV’s then-ambassador to the United States — and delivered a lecture.
“America,” Colby and his colleagues told the cardinal, “has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. The Catholic Church had better take its side.”
As tempers rose, one U.S. official reached for a fourteenth-century weapon and invoked the Avignon Papacy, the period when the French Crown used military force to bend the bishop of Rome to its will.——————
Nicole mentioned this
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
mercuryblues
(16,442 posts)These people are insane.
malaise
(296,442 posts)See yah Slobby!
BonnieJW
(3,126 posts)
flashman13
(2,434 posts)You might have missed that Catholics were pointedly told they were not welcome at Hogsbreath's Easter service.
calimary
(90,164 posts)ANY Catholic Church would have already flung their doors wide open.
ALL are welcome at The Lord’s table. Or at least that’s what I learned in Catholic school. Jesus forgave sinners as He hung on the cross, near death. Why would He leave anybody out, now?
Ms. Toad
(38,669 posts)A number of us were curious about other denominations and decided to attend each other's services. The Catholics were forbidden from attending any other services, and it was made clear we weren't welcome to attend their (even though none of ours (Quaker, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran) forbid it)
SunSeeker
(58,295 posts)He is completely insane.
ananda
(35,210 posts)Pope Leo is wise to stay out of the USA right now.
ananda
(35,210 posts)Remember that picture of Trump as the pope?
vapor2
(4,566 posts)
BlueKota
(5,378 posts)are proud of themselves now the Catholic Church is being threatened.
mucifer
(25,679 posts)paleotn
(22,281 posts)During holy week? No service for Catholics of any stripe. Protestants only.
BlueKota
(5,378 posts)don't even consider Catholics
Christian. A Jewish friend of my sister asked her, if she considered herself a Christian. She said "no", that she may not go to church, but she still considers herself a Catholic. She said, and I agree we in no way want to be mistaken with the perverted Maga brand of Christianity.
I’m sure my “super religious” Catholic brother and sister-in-law hate the pope because he actually follows the words of JC, therefore, he is woke! They’re, meaning a lot of my “holier than thou” family members and exclassmates, total hypocrites who, obviously, were reading a different bible than I was, and believe the “American Jesus” would think their dear leader is righteous in his actions against the horrible Muslim infidels. It’s the new Crusades, don’t cha know. 🤮
BlueKota
(5,378 posts)For the first time in a long time, I am proud of the Church I was raised in.
ShazzieB
(22,651 posts)I could feel my temper rising when I read about Schlump threatening the Vatican. 
maxsolomon
(38,812 posts)Not in their Fox Bubbles.
They wouldn't understand the threat even if they did.
underpants
(196,649 posts)They summoned the Vatican’s ambassador….to browbeat him.
a kennedy
(36,030 posts)AND THAT WAS IT. THE ABORTION STANCE!!!! Needless to say I DON’T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF TIME FOR THEM. 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬 🤬
rurallib
(64,693 posts)ShazzieB
(22,651 posts)I dont believe for a movement that he gives a fat rat's ass about abortion, but SO many people fell for that. 
SheilaAnn
(10,733 posts)ShazzieB
(22,651 posts)A bunch, I'm sure.
OhioBack2Blue
(123 posts)....that orange walking diarrhea has caused himself??? Dozens.
2. Rich women will always be able to abort.
3. The Bible itself does not explicitly mention or forbid abortion. Full stop.
slightlv
(7,802 posts)my brother and his entire family voted for the POS because of GUNS! Like, the Democrats ever did anything that negated the "free for all, wild west" environment around guns in the U.S. But they'll tell you tooth and nail that if Democrats ever got into office they'd take away everybody's guns. Stupid. Sis feels like I do... so politics, even just names, are off limits when Bro is near, which isn't too often. He's tried to reach out a few times to us since our Mom died last year, but he's even more of a loner than I am. We try to welcome him as much as possible in order to keep some semblance of the family together, but it's hard and not real comfy. LOL! Since trump put himself in the Oval this time around, we've not heard one word from Bro about this admin. Something tells me he may be coming around to our way of thinking, since trump is now threatening Medicare, SS, etc., and my brother just started drawing his. Funny how that works, eh?
Sneederbunk
(17,526 posts)
wnylib
(26,115 posts)about US policies. I hope that Leo is not intimidated into silence. The US military would refuse to carry out orders against the Vatican, just as they recently did in the threats against Iran.
malaise
(296,442 posts)These past few days.
Volaris
(11,724 posts)Also, I fucking PROMISE YOU that 'conversation'...came from that wannabe crusader nut Hegseth; this meeting was his idea.
He’ll soon understand the ‘stakes’.😀
MustLoveBeagles
(16,570 posts)
niyad
(132,662 posts)
Deuxcents
(27,056 posts)And what the history of that is. What arrogance from the Pentagon
malaise
(296,442 posts)Join the line😀
My mum would have been good for this one.
Passages
(4,202 posts)See that, a new low almost daily.
Good on the Pope and his peeps! He refused to be intimidated and certainly wasn't going to be used.
3825-87867
(1,951 posts)the stupid imposition.
rubbersole
(11,230 posts)How he still has somewhere near 30% support on anything is baffling. Corporate media isn't going to be able to keep putting any more lipstick on this pig.
AverageOldGuy
(3,922 posts). . . " Under Secretary of War for Policy " -- he is " Under Secretary of DEFENSE for Policy."
PuraVidaDreamin
(4,635 posts)That could work some freaking miracle right now!
AverageOldGuy
(3,922 posts)Here's a link to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avignon_Papacy
Here's the AI response:
Apparently the French Emperor (King ?) was pissed off at the Church, so, when a French cardinal was elected Pope, the French crown forced him to remain in Avignon, France, and several successive French Popes were forced to remain in Avignon.
Not being Catholic, all I know is what I read on the 'net. However, as best I can tell, the "Avignon Papacy" is a warning about the dangers of mixing religion and politics.
Deuxcents
(27,056 posts)Is it because the Pope is anti war and not siding with this invasion of Iran?
malaise
(296,442 posts)
MustLoveBeagles
(16,570 posts) AverageOldGuy
(3,922 posts)https://www.newsweek.com/jd-vance-reacts-report-us-official-issued-threat-vatican-ambassador-11802350
Vance, speaking in Hungary, was asked about reports first shared by The Free Press that claimed Cardinal Christophe Pierre was told in January that the Vatican and the Catholic Church should get on board with the Trump administration's military tactics.
Deuxcents
(27,056 posts)underpants
(196,649 posts)
niyad
(132,662 posts)
llmart
(17,630 posts)Except Jonathan Winters was a really funny guy. There is nothing funny about this fraud.
littlemissmartypants
(33,816 posts)After all, the Pope's not a Christian Nationalist is he?
That would make him the enemy.
Irish_Dem
(81,520 posts)That wasn't on my bingo card.
I'm slipping.
no_hypocrisy
(54,983 posts)underpants
(196,649 posts)
MustLoveBeagles
(16,570 posts) Crowman2009
(3,534 posts)Cpl. Jackass Dickface Vance being one of them. I seriously had an opportunity to prevent him from becoming VP. But like the butterfly effect, I checked the wrong box with regards to my choice of duty station and didn't bother to re-enlist in 2002 which was a year before that fucker went to boot camp.
Scrivener7
(59,611 posts)who knows exactly how much power he wields.
patphil
(9,095 posts)The Satan in the White House and his Demonic Secretary of WAR have threatened the Pope, and all of Catholicism.
The Catholic Church has already taken it's side; the side of Jesus. They have taken the side of spiritual truth and justice; the side of love.
So now we can see Hegseth in his true form as the beast he truly is. The Trump government is evil incarnate.
Joinfortmill
(21,240 posts)
MerryBlooms
(12,288 posts)Cirsium
(3,957 posts)This isn't a parody?
Emrys
(9,126 posts)it just proves that happened months ago.
I'm surprised they didn't propose Vance as Leo's usurper, what with his liking for fabrics and all.
blue-wave
(5,221 posts)Emrys
(9,126 posts)
FFWWWAAAARRRRR
blue-wave
(5,221 posts)look so good sitting there with his glitter eyeliner.
blue-wave
(5,221 posts)are going to inform their congregations of this? I won't hold my breath waiting for the announcements.
DBoon
(25,019 posts)Buzz cook
(2,900 posts)France didn't like the Italian pope so they installed a French pope in Avignon.
So Trump is thinking of a split from Rome for American (maga) Catholics.
Good luck with that.
Emrys
(9,126 posts)Spirit of the age and all that.
Vance could take on that role, leaving the Antichrist for Trump. That should keep the Evangelicals happy.
red dog 1
(33,125 posts)Every single day we are reminded that the Trump Crime Family is diabolically evil.
vapor2
(4,566 posts)Love this Pope as Leo was my dad's name
DFW
(60,242 posts)You's think he could find something better to do. But I guess one could say that about EVERYTHING he does.
Mblaze
(1,065 posts)The Pentagon is drunk with power.
Figarosmom
(12,157 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(180,213 posts)It was so bad that Pope Leo changed his plans to travel to the U.S.
This thin-skinned mafia administration is insane.
— Mrs. Betty Bowers (@mrsbettybowers.bsky.social) 2026-04-08T22:50:43.514Z
newrepublic.com/post/208820/...
https://newrepublic.com/post/208820/pentagon-threatened-pope-criticized-donald-trump
Days after Pope Leo XIV delivered his State of the World speech, Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Elbridge Colby summoned Cardinal Christophe Pierre, the Vatican’s U.S. representative, to a closed-door Pentagon meeting for a bitter lecture.
“The United States,” Colby said, according to a blistering new report by The Free Press, “has the military power to do whatever it wants in the world. The Catholic Church had better take its side.”
One U.S. official present at the meeting brought up the Avignon papacy, a period in the 14th century in which the French monarchy bent the Catholic Church into submission, ordering an attack on Pope Boniface VIII that led to his downfall and subsequent death and forcing the papacy to relocate from Rome to Avignon, a region inside France......
The Vatican was so alarmed by the Pentagon’s warning that Pope Leo cancelled his plans to visit the U.S. later in the year, reported Hale, who noted that “many in the Vatican saw the Pentagon’s reference to an Avignon papacy as a threat to use military force against the Holy See.”
Tensions had not been mended by February, when the Holy See rejected the White House’s invitation to host Pope Leo—the religious order’s first U.S.-born pontiff—for America’s 250th anniversary in July. Instead, the Catholic leader has arranged to visit a very different locale on July 4: Lampedusa, a tiny island between Tunisia and Sicily where North African immigrants wash ashore by the thousands
Hegseth is a religious nut case who believes that G-d is supporting trump's war and military actions. I note that Hegseth excluded Catholics from Good Friday religious events. See https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221145488 If nothing else, Hegseth's actions/statements and the attack on the Pope violate the basic fundamental precepts of the separation of church and state.
malaise
(296,442 posts)Important snip
Tensions had not been mended by February, when the Holy See rejected the White House’s invitation to host Pope Leo—the religious order’s first U.S.-born pontiff—for America’s 250th anniversary in July. Instead, the Catholic leader has arranged to visit a very different locale on July 4: Lampedusa, a tiny island between Tunisia and Sicily where North African immigrants wash ashore by the thousands
Thanks