her potential lawsuit against Trump prior to his first run for President. Her name was long left at "Jane Doe," but later identified as Katie Johnson.

https://people.com/politics/donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-dismissed/

When he uses the term “After-birth” abortions.

This allegation took place on a yacht on Lake Michigan. Katie Johnson's allegations were she was raped 4 times at Jeffrey Epstein's residence in New York.

The person who made the statement could face criminal charges for lying to the FBI.

...so this person could come forward to substantiate this claim without fear of prosecution for their statement to the FBI, although they may be open to charge of accessory after the fact to murder. That will probably be the mitigation to not coming forward. I have to admit I find this claim to be really outlandish, and I'm skeptical of it.

I do not believe the statute of limitation is 5 years for raping a minor.

...which wasn't about the rape of a minor.

Just ask all the innocent people being deported how that works.

...at the risk of losing their own and likely their families' lives.

Epstein files.

Bondi should simply release those.

That is it is too outlandish to consider?

Perhaps there is a bridge you might like to purchase?

put himself at the site of a murder. That is not the mob boss way. You have other people take care of those details.

That makes the whole statement very suspect without more context and substance.

Just ask Jamal Khashoggi

Trump is a vicious brutal psychopath.
He would certainly endorse murder if it furthered his interests.

Keep in mind this is years ago and Trump is not always the brightest bulb
and had not perfected the mob boss skill set.

He has also been drug addicted and not aways thinking clearly.

Defending the indefensible is a hard sell.
A very hard sell.

His whole life, he has made sure someone else takes the blame.

I would have to see some verified context before I believe that report.

Did the lady tell this same story to any friends at the time she gave birth? Did she she any. Medical people?

And you aren’t expecting them to happen. Maybe he thought the uncle had something else in mind and happened to be there but didn’t report it. It would make him guilty of something

The complaint seems to imply this was something Trump planned and wanted to witness himself. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. IMHO, that would be very out of character for Trump. And if he is nothing else, his is consistent.

One thing I have learned is how many adolescents and young women were intimidated or threatened into silence. I would take issue with any suggestion that their assertions are false simply because they didn’t share the stories of their experiences contemporaneously with others.

I did not say she should be disbelieved. I said we should look for evidence that would provide context and independent verification. We should not act like a mob just because somebody says what we want to hear.

It is possible that the girl never told another person on the entire planet that she was pregnant. It is possible that she never told anybody she was being raped by such a prominent person as Trump. It is possible she never saw any medical professional.

It is also possible that some memories are synthesized, or at least some of the details, after bouncing around in a traumatized person's brain for decades.

We should at least ask for evidence before running off like a wild mob.

You have decided the report is not accurate based upon your assessment of what Trump would or wouldn’t do. Therefore you don’t believe the report without further corroboration.

I honestly don’t know what happened, but I do not share your assumption about Trump, so I have a different perspective.

Making a comment about Trump's lift-long tendencies is not the same thing as saying the girl lied. Trump has spent his whole lifetime forcing others to clean up his messes. So it is out of character that he would choose to be on site when a baby is aborted and destroyed. I also said explicitly that it was possible but unlikely. So you are making false accusations about me. Please read more carefully. I am simply saying that we should expect the same evidence that we would demand if a person from "our team" were accused.

This is not a stretch.

Please read my replies on this. I have not accused you of calling any victim a liar, but you do not believe the story is true. Therefore you believe it is false.

“I would have to see some verified context before I believe that report.”

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.

“Did the lady tell this same story to any friends at the time she gave birth? Did she she any. Medical people?”

How many victims have been doubted with this argument?

It is fair to ask the DU community to avoid drawing the verbal knives without fully processing these stories. It is asking a bit much of some of us to give Trump the benefit of the doubt based on what we think we know about him.

You need verification from a 13 year old girl's friends and medical professionals, but you're all in on Piggy would never do anything like that!

was charged with the same things. Otherwise, we are no better than the MAGA people.

Out of character perhaps but still possible. Will be interesting to see where this goes.

That's all that I am saying.

Let's take a different item in the news. The MAGA people were all over Minnesota this week, with a claim that the Medicaid fraud in Minnesota is "up to $9 bn."

Do we accept that just because a person said it? I hope not. We look for evidence. And we apply a :reasonableness test" to the claim. It is reasonable that, in a state that processed $18Bn in Medicaid claims, HALF of them would be fraud?

The national rate is only 5%, and that includes simple errors as well as fraud, so the actual fraud rate is something lower than 5%. Is it likely that Minnesota would have a fraud rate 10x to 20x greater than the country on average?

It is possible. But certainly not very likely, given other things we know.

Let's not be like the MAGA mob.

Last edited Tue Dec 23, 2025, 06:32 PM - Edit history (1)

The FBI has already come out to say the handwritten letter from Epstein to Nassar describing how Cankles likes to grope "nubile girls" was false.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20886710

But that is coming from Pam Bondi's FBI, so do we believe them?

I don't know whether to think the note is true or not.

They're going to cloud everything they can.

I hate this.

ETA: Forbes has written an article detailing the elements that show the Epstein to Nassar letter to be false. It seems pretty convincing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2025/12/23/major-epstein-files-release-doj-says-letter-to-larry-nassar-mentioning-trump-is-fake/

to the press and thought no one would figure that out

He almost certainly would verify the child was dead so he didnt have to pay child support. That's totally consistent with Trump. He is self self self and cheap as hell.

You can hear it in his voice when he talks about the death tolls in world events. You can hear it in his voice when he describes harm and repulsive injury suffered by others.

Of course he could be involved in murder(s)! Torture and depravity often lead to death.

What chilled me was the warning on the ball gag included in the Epstein "sex toy" pics, that a person could vomit and suffocate, or otherwise asphyxiate; there is NO doubt in my mind these sick freaks could and would kill girls whose bodies they were defiling.

Anything!

Supposedly legit looking aspects of him are a veneer. Businessman? Moneyed? All irrelevant.

sounds very hands on for him. He likes to order people to do his dirty work. He’s a pig and I can definitely hear him saying get rid of it.

He outdoes their headline intensity daily.

That it's not surprising when it frequently appears as disbelief and skepticism.

her wholeheartedly. For example, I believe the Katie Johnson story of another 13 year old girl is completely plausible.

What we are talking about here are papers that have been in Pam Bondi's hands, subject to Pam Bondi's manipulation and who knows what for the better part of a year.

That's a silly question.

Right now, with what you know, do you believe the woman’s statement to be true? Or would you want to see more corroborating evidence before deciding?

Rielle Hunter before any MSM would report it?

THAT Enquirer?

That, whenever anything truly lurid is found, people will decide that "this can't be true" and dismiss it out-of-hand, while anything illegal but not as lurid will be brushed-off as "not that bad."

And wants to deport all of them?

always has been

Literally. They aren't capable.

I can hear it when he describes people who have been killed, maimed, or harmed.

One thing that worries me is if someone might also insert bogus documents to attempt to cast doubt on the whole tranche of documents. From what I've read, Russia does that a lot - "Flood the Zone" tactic.

at the exact time she alleges the baby was killed.

And then they'll have ammunition to discredit all the accounts.

It is dated 2020 and has DoJ watermark associated with it.

This was Trump’s FBI in 2020, and there is no doubt this was buried by his cronies.

salacious and horrible one, there's a trap door that has been planted for us to fall through.

And it's likely in the "Oops! We forgot these tens of thousands of files. Here they are a little late. Sorry." drop of files.

Like when the news gets a story wrong on the front page then prints a retraction on page 27

Only a small percentage will see the retraction

Because that's how fast that happened

Haven't we learned anything yet? Who does he most admire in the world? Now talk to me about unspeakably horrible.

If this is fabricated, there is no benefit to Trump for fabricating it.

It's likely others would try harder to shield him than he would try for himself. A lack of a conscience does that to him.

Look at the clumsy stupid way they're trying to implicate Prez Clinton. And the common knowledge publicity pic with Michael Jackson? They're gonna intentionally create something like this to fake people out? Come on!

to discredit all the info. Smoke and mirrors is always the game.

I have even been trying to find corroborating stories to match up to some of the docs.

For now, I think the Dems and others need to be careful not to get played.

"........he was present when my uncle murdered
my newborn child and disposed of the body in Lake Michigan."

What happened to that case let alone the rape charges?? Was anyone charged with infanticide? Why on earth would Trump be present for that??

It gets more mind-boggling every day......

To be true, she was trafficked by Epstein with her family's knowledge and approval since they were fine with killing her baby and dumping it in a lake with one of the people who abused her.

It's not impossible because there are some absolutely horrible humans, but it feels like something made up. It's not something being spread by any major media that I've seen. So is there something that wasn't posted to social media that discredits the claim? It should have been investigated.

Well then it must not be true.

That it's not surprising when it frequently appears as disbelief and skepticism.

This is a particularly outside of the norm claim. What percentage of rape cases would fall under these specific circumstances?

Why is nobody other than social media touching this? This would be front page news. The media is all over the flight records.

The incidence of mis/disinformation not only exceeds fifty percent of all content that most are exposed to, and that such adversely affects our ability to think critically in all cases, it doesn't surprise me when the incapacity to separate fact from biased supposition exists.

And sickening.

Maybe if it was a Democrat being accused it would be more believable.

It appears that the smaller the mind and heart attached to the decisionmaker, the faster the rush to judgement occurs.

Bondi's goons dropping documents. I would be surprised if they DIDN'T put in some trap door in for us to fall through.

If a spokesperson or lawyer for this girl tells us she exists and this is her statement, I will readily believe her. I won't believe it only on the say so of Pam Bondi.

And I really don't believe my position in this warrants your insults of small mind and heart.

Have a lovely holiday.

And yes some of the babies and some of the girls may have died at the hands of
the Epstein/Trump sex ring.

Wake up people.

What do you think happens when young girls are held captive and raped repeatedly?

in a department store change room?

People keep underestimating Krasnov.

Cooked up a story to get the woman in a dressing room alone.
Then it was her word against his.

He used the fact he was famous to flatter and entice her.
She assumed someone so famous would not rape her.
E. J Carroll kicked herself for being so naive.

He did the same thing to Stormy.
Lured her to his hotel room with a fake story about going to dinner and a job.
She excused her self to go to the bathroom and he cornered her in the bedroom.
Guard at door.

Stormy kicked herself for being naive.

Keep in mind EJ and Stormy were mature woman, been around the block,
were not naive and gullible. And Trump easily manipulated and gamed them.

Like he’s done rape many times before.

He had done it many times before.

One way you can tell, is that he made no mistakes.
He was confident and blasé about it.

First time criminals are either nervous or make mistakes.
Trump was neither in the rapes we know about.

brown girl witnessed Trump at the actual site I don’t believe she would be around to tell anyone. That is what I think he is capable of.

There were witnesses but Maria disappeared. The other girl was represented by Alred but she backed out because she got so many death threats.

It was very hard to stand on based on facts. The chief backer that was pushing this was the producer for Jerry Springer as I remember. This case was a buyer beware.

I am suspicious of it, and want to know more about what you're saying.

As I said above, the baby murder with onlookers is a very well-trodden right-wing Satanic panic trope.

But I think it is very possible this last bit is not true for the reason stated upthread many times by others.

Sometimes bs is fed into the narrative to try and discredit our message, by telling us what we want to hear and using that.

Not that Im willing to click the links and follow the trail…at least not today. Too much work to do!

It probably isn’t actually true, but at this point who knows?

there was no proof of the outrageous golden showers story. It would have been better had Steele ignored that story.

It definitely exists as a document on the DOJ website.

Thanks!

I know the mods there and they are fair. They said the OP could repost it with some caveats.

It doesn’t change the reality that this was a victim statement taken by the FBI.

Abortions include murdering newborns.

He is always subconsciously compelled to confess.

But to read the DU Doubters is interesting, that they could think that....

A man who allowed the forcible kidnapping of Central American infants and children; a man who was gleeful over our sending men to the worst prison in our hemisphere; a man who groped and sexually assaulted women; a man who boasted about walking in on teen models in various states of undress; a man who was a best friend of a notorious child-sex-trafficker; a man whose own wife wrote that he brutally raped her: a man who admitted to wanting to "date" his one daughter, were they not related, and wondered aloud about the future bust size of his other, then infant daughter; that THIS man.....

Would have an actual line he wouldn't cross.

he's an experienced attorney (and law professor), and I think will be very careful about what he reports. That said, it could be true. I know it seems far-fetched, but I wouldn't put it past Donald. After watching his behavior on Jan 6th, and the past year, I think he's truly capable of anything.

If they produce a spokesperson or lawyer who says the girl exists and who says this is the girl's statement, I'll readily believe it.

But I won't believe it only on the say so of Pam Bondi, whose reason for living is to discredit the fact that Cankles is implicated with Epstein.

That means she was probably impregnated at 12--not even teenaged yet.

I believe this girl, and the legal report. trump is not above committing any atrocity. He probably got off on watching the birth and the murder.

It boggles the mind.

Trump would not purposely leak something so damning about him, and that is the theory being used by several here.

Applying Occam’s Razor and it is far more likely that career DoJ professionals want to expose Trump for what he is.