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Wiz Imp

(8,906 posts)
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 10:19 AM Dec 18

"many families will be saving between $11,000 and $20,000 a year,

and next spring is projected to be the largest tax refund season of all time.”

Trump said this last night.

In reality, we have data for 2021 which shows families in each of the bottom 3 quintiles of income already paid less than $11,000 in Federal income tax (most, significantly less). So that means that almost everyone in the lowest earning 60% of families already paid less than $11,000 total in income taxes so it is impossible for that 60% of the population to save $11,000. Even if income taxes were completely eliminated for the bottom 60% (they weren't), they still wouldn't save that much money.

https://usafacts.org/articles/average-taxes-paid-income-payroll-government-transfers-2018/

The facts are, that unlike the lie that Trump is peddling, taxes for working class families were hardly cut at all. The main tax impact of the bill was to make previous cuts permanent, which by itself, saved nobody anything - it just meant that people wouldn't be paying more.

The supposed elimination of taxes on social security (which in reality did not elimnate a single dollar of taxes directly on social security) will save the average social security recipient $670 a year.

The so-called elimation of taxes on tips reduces taxes for tipped workers by a little over $1000 a yeat. But for those making $33,000 or less, that savings drops to just $450.

As for the supposed elimnation of taxes on overtime, that provision will save taxpayers in the bottom 2 quintiles effectvely nothing. The third and fouth quintiles would save a whopping $135 a year, and even the top quintile wil save only $215 a year.

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"many families will be saving between $11,000 and $20,000 a year, (Original Post) Wiz Imp Dec 18 OP
Averages are a wonderful thing. sop Dec 18 #1
Which is why looking at quintiles makes sense. Wiz Imp Dec 18 #3
I am in sticker shock each time I go to the grocery store. Irish_Dem Dec 18 #2
Damn! What kind of tomatoes? CrispyQ Dec 18 #4
IDK the brand, I kind of blacked out! Irish_Dem Dec 18 #15
Don't shop at Whole Foods. Go to Aldi. hedda_foil Dec 18 #5
I hardly ever shop there. Irish_Dem Dec 18 #16
Whole Foods is more expensive then typical grocery stores. kimbutgar Dec 18 #8
Same here. I hardly ever shop there. Irish_Dem Dec 18 #14
I am making cookies as I always do Bettie Dec 18 #18
My family loves a nice beef roast on Christmas Eve. Irish_Dem Dec 18 #19
We're seeing that too Bettie Dec 18 #20
I was at a store looking at an afghan throw. Last year I paid about $15 for the same one. Irish_Dem Dec 18 #21
Perfect. You never know who you are shopping next to. PuraVidaDreamin Dec 19 #22
Yep. I made some loud comments about $7 for a can of tomatoes and $25 for mushrooms. Irish_Dem Dec 19 #23
Whole Paycheck RoseTrellis Dec 19 #24
I was not that impressed with the quality for the price. Irish_Dem Dec 19 #30
Whole Foods isn't called Whole Paycheck for nothing. llmart Dec 19 #25
I agree. It was a bad experience, boarding on creepy. Irish_Dem Dec 19 #29
That container thing... llmart Dec 19 #31
The entire experience was bad. Irish_Dem Dec 19 #32
$10 for a can of Green Giant asparagus. Safeway. marybourg Dec 19 #26
Yikes. I would take a hard pass on that one. Irish_Dem Dec 19 #27
It's time malaise Dec 18 #6
BS OC375 Dec 18 #7
Tax cuts don't matter when you don't have a job. CrispyQ Dec 18 #17
Isn't that nice. A few families will even be saving billions and billions of dollars. twodogsbarking Dec 18 #9
Listening to that moron talking about percentages and taxes..... AZ8theist Dec 18 #10
Yes, but his current "business" (the Presidency) makes him BILLIONS... Justice matters. Dec 18 #13
I am grateful for lowering my prescriptions by 400% Playingmantis Dec 18 #11
"[M]any families"...just not yours. And wages are rising...just not yours--especially if you've been let go. Ol Janx Spirit Dec 18 #12
But we'll all be paying thousands more for everything kerouac2 Dec 19 #28

sop

(17,400 posts)
1. Averages are a wonderful thing.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 10:25 AM
Dec 18

Put Elon Musk in a room with 99 destitute people and everyone's net worth...on average...would be $6B each.

Wiz Imp

(8,906 posts)
3. Which is why looking at quintiles makes sense.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 10:38 AM
Dec 18

The average in the bottom 4 quintiles won't be too far off the median for each quintile.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
2. I am in sticker shock each time I go to the grocery store.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 10:31 AM
Dec 18

Canned tomatoes $7 for just ONE CAN.

Specialty mushrooms $24 for one container

This is at Whole Foods.

CrispyQ

(40,665 posts)
4. Damn! What kind of tomatoes?
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 10:41 AM
Dec 18

My local grocer has 28 ounce Muir Glen organic fire roasted tomatoes for $3.99. Same size of Private Selection non-organic for $3.29. They used to carry Cento which cost more & I like when I make tomato soup, but they've replaced that brand with Red Gold, which has a label very much like Cento's.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
15. IDK the brand, I kind of blacked out!
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 01:28 PM
Dec 18

And looked around for a cheaper brand.
Which thank god I found.

I was still reeling from the $25 for a container of mushrooms.
Also was able to find a cheaper container of regular mushrooms.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
16. I hardly ever shop there.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 01:29 PM
Dec 18

But someone in the family wanted a Whole Foods sour dough bread, so I stopped there.

I shop at a store with cheaper prices.

kimbutgar

(26,792 posts)
8. Whole Foods is more expensive then typical grocery stores.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 12:20 PM
Dec 18

I usually only buy one from them that I can’t find at another store.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
14. Same here. I hardly ever shop there.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 01:26 PM
Dec 18

I went in for their sour dough bread, but needed a few other items.
Yikes.

Bettie

(19,260 posts)
18. I am making cookies as I always do
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 01:40 PM
Dec 18

we call it cookiepocalypse....because a long time ago, when my oldest two were in elementary school, I wanted Christmas cookies and a bunch of different varieties. I made cookies for us and had WAY too many, so I took boxes of cookies to our elementary and high schools.

I still have a kid in school, (my older two graduated in 2018 and 2019...I started in 2011) so I still do it....boy howdy, between the price of butter and chocolate (nearly died when I saw the cost of white chocolate this year), it's WAY more expensive than usual.

Still doing it, but there is sticker shock. Glad I got a bunch of cocoa powder at Aldi earlier this year.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
19. My family loves a nice beef roast on Christmas Eve.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 02:38 PM
Dec 18

When I saw the price of the roast I wanted last week at the store, I was in real sticker shock.
Joked to the lady shopper next to me I had to call the bank to see if I can get a line of
credit for shopping for Xmas dinner.

I did buy the roast but a smaller one than usual.

Bettie

(19,260 posts)
20. We're seeing that too
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 03:19 PM
Dec 18

they say what the rate of inflation is and then I look at my grocery bill and see prices that have gone up WAY more than that.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
21. I was at a store looking at an afghan throw. Last year I paid about $15 for the same one.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 03:22 PM
Dec 18

This year it is $40. Exact same throw.

PuraVidaDreamin

(4,451 posts)
22. Perfect. You never know who you are shopping next to.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 05:55 AM
Dec 19

I also talk out loud 'to myself' when I'm shopping in the only red county in VT.


Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
23. Yep. I made some loud comments about $7 for a can of tomatoes and $25 for mushrooms.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 06:05 AM
Dec 19

I don't care if people are hearing it.

RoseTrellis

(92 posts)
24. Whole Paycheck
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 06:43 AM
Dec 19

That’s what we call that place.
We go in to buy an item or two, and are amazed people can afford to fill their carts there.
The quality is top notch, unfortunately it’s too expensive for us.

llmart

(17,309 posts)
25. Whole Foods isn't called Whole Paycheck for nothing.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 07:00 AM
Dec 19

I do shop there occasionally though if I'm in the area where it's located. There are a few things they carry that I like but it's not the high end stuff. Every since they were bought by Amazon I quit going there weekly. The quality went downhill and the stores aren't as pleasant looking as they used to be.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
29. I agree. It was a bad experience, boarding on creepy.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 07:25 AM
Dec 19

I was not impressed with the store. Total rip off on food prices.
And they make other bad decisions.

I wanted to buy some lunch from the prepared food section at WF while I was there.
There was a saucy Indian dish I wanted but the clerk in the section insisted I just put it in a brown
box with a fold over lid. Like you use for pastry or friend chicken.

The sauce was like soup but she would not let me use a container
with a liquid proof lid. I pointed out the sauce will leak and spill out of the cardboard box.
She would not budge on the issue so I walked away thinking this place is insane.

$24 for a container of mushrooms, $7 for a can of tomatoes.
And having to put soup in a card board fold over box.

I got out of there fast. It was creepy.

llmart

(17,309 posts)
31. That container thing...
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 07:35 AM
Dec 19

is ridiculous! If I get something from the hot bar, the soup bar is behind it so I just use those containers. I don't even ask. When I get to the checkout, I just say, "this isn't soup, but from the hot bar" and I've never had any cashier have a problem with it. It really is a stupid idea but it was like that even before they were bought out by Amazon. It's meant to be environmentally correct and I get that, but c'mon.

I live near a couple of family owned Italian specialty type stores and you wouldn't believe their prices right now. This all happened right after Covid. I like to turn over some of the bakery items in boxes to see what they cost and there are some things I just can't believe anyone would pay what their asking. Four baklava for $10.99.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
32. The entire experience was bad.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 07:49 AM
Dec 19

In addition to the ridiculous prices, a clerk giving me a hard time about packaging a take out food item.

Telling me I could not use the soup containers for anything but the soup
as they were priced separately. Like I was trying to cheat the store somehow.
I wanted to tell her given the ridiculous prices in the store, it is the store who
is cheating customers.

The entire store was giving me bad vibes.

Irish_Dem

(79,727 posts)
27. Yikes. I would take a hard pass on that one.
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 07:18 AM
Dec 19

Just unbelievable.

That is just one part of the meal.
Price of meat is sky high too.

How are people feeding a family?

OC375

(430 posts)
7. BS
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 11:51 AM
Dec 18

Tax games won't compensate of decades stagnant wages, and 5 years of absolute insanity on price increases. I was fortunate enough to get a 3% "raise", which means I'm making less than last year relative to my purchasing power. $57 dollars a week extra, before taxes, healthcare, etc... doesn't begin to cover it, andI'm one of the lucky ones so I try not to complain. I certainly didn't see any less come out of my paychecks in 2025, so whatever nonsense they're spouting, it didn't trickle down to lower middle class..

CrispyQ

(40,665 posts)
17. Tax cuts don't matter when you don't have a job.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 01:34 PM
Dec 18

I saw that bumper sticker back in W's terms.

AZ8theist

(7,099 posts)
10. Listening to that moron talking about percentages and taxes.....
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 12:32 PM
Dec 18

...really explains how he backrupted every business he ever tried. He is MONUMENTALLY stupid.

Justice matters.

(9,357 posts)
13. Yes, but his current "business" (the Presidency) makes him BILLIONS...
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 01:07 PM
Dec 18

And nobody does anything about it. And pedo the felon will die scot-free. Or in a nursing room.

Playingmantis

(532 posts)
11. I am grateful for lowering my prescriptions by 400%
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 12:34 PM
Dec 18

That means the store will give me money each time i fill a prescription!

Ol Janx Spirit

(685 posts)
12. "[M]any families"...just not yours. And wages are rising...just not yours--especially if you've been let go.
Thu Dec 18, 2025, 12:45 PM
Dec 18

The GOP really wants to help working families...just not the ones that do, like, actual work....

kerouac2

(1,415 posts)
28. But we'll all be paying thousands more for everything
Fri Dec 19, 2025, 07:24 AM
Dec 19

And we'll all have less because our tax dollars no longer go to the programs folks took for granted that he has destroyed.

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